Metacam

[Fasb's Owner]

Fasb seemed greatly improved today, much more himself, so it seems to be working. No side effects or issues yet. Wife and I are fairly apprehensive keeping him on an NSAID long term, but right now we don't see a better option. We want to give him as much quality time as possible, and it's obvious we probably can't manage his arthritis going forward without something stronger than a glucosamine supplement. Right now, the plan (ours and the vet's) seems to be some sort of glucosamine supplement daily with a NSAID a few times a week. Vet's instructions were to give him the Metacam for four days straight, then as needed, prob 2-3 times a week.

Is that the route to go long-term? Glucosamine supplement daily with the NSAID saved for bad days and administered a few times per week. Anyone have a better plan? We decided it probably is worth it to change glucosamine supplements and give that a try, see if he's building up a tolerance to Cosequin, so we'll research that this week. But I'm skeptical we can adequately relieve his pain long-term without a NSAID or something else stronger than Coesequin.

Along those lines, what is the probability of side effects? I've done a fair bit of research this week and read the literature, so I understand what the risks are, but what percentage of dogs develop issues? I don't have a good sense of that. Few? 50/50? Most dogs? All dogs?
.

 

[tesslynn]

I am of the alternative crowd

Fasb seemed greatly improved today, much more himself, so it seems to be working. No side effects or issues yet. Wife and I are fairly apprehensive keeping him on an NSAID long term, but right now we don't see a better option. We want to give him as much quality time as possible, and it's obvious we probably can't manage his arthritis going forward without something stronger than a glucosamine supplement. Right now, the plan (ours and the vet's) seems to be some sort of glucosamine supplement daily with a NSAID a few times a week. Vet's instructions were to give him the Metacam for four days straight, then as needed, prob 2-3 times a week.

Is that the route to go long-term? Glucosamine supplement daily with the NSAID saved for bad days and administered a few times per week. Anyone have a better plan? We decided it probably is worth it to change glucosamine supplements and give that a try, see if he's building up a tolerance to Cosequin, so we'll research that this week. But I'm skeptical we can adequately relieve his pain long-term without a NSAID or something else stronger than Coesequin.

Along those lines, what is the probability of side effects? I've done a fair bit of research this week and read the literature, so I understand what the risks are, but what percentage of dogs develop issues? I don't have a good sense of that. Few? 50/50? Most dogs? All dogs?
.

I used green lipped mussel for my recently passed sheltie for joint issues. It helped her. My neighbors have collies, they use glucosamine and green lipped mussel. They have had great results with that combo for their dogs who are becoming arthritic. I will always search out a more natural approach because I don't agree with prescription meds for people or pets. Which causes ire on here but whatever. I just believe wholeheartedly that there are way better choices available, that aren't as harsh, and tolerated much better.

 

[The Quahog]

Fasb seemed greatly improved today, much more himself, so it seems to be working. No side effects or issues yet. Wife and I are fairly apprehensive keeping him on an NSAID long term, but right now we don't see a better option.
.

Again, not wishing to interfere with your veterinarian and his recommendations, but perhaps some explanation might help.
Yes, you are right that maintaining on NSAIDs is not ideal, but would you have to?
I explain it to my clients like this - if you say 'My back is killing me, I need to take an Advil', fine. But if you need 3 Advil to get out of bed each morning that is not a good plan. Some people need to, it is always risk vs reward, but generally NSAIDs are much more useful to keep in the cabinet and use as the need arises.
My knees aren't the best,I can work all day , hike and all fine, but if I jump out of the back of a pickup truck and land wrong I'm going to be in for a rough few days. This is when the NSAIDs come in handy for 5 days or so. And this appears to be the sort of situation your dog is in.
Remember that NSAIDS simply suppress a symptom, they never cure anything, not unlike say using Claritin for hay fever. If you wonder when you get up in the morning whether you need it or not, you don't. Its not like an antibiotic where you are cautioned 'I dont care if you feel all better tomorrow, take the whole course.'
So you have had a good response, which is great. If it comes down to when you give the Metacam every day he does great, when you don't quality of life suffers then you have to decide. But that is usually not the case.
I would doubt your veterinarian is recommending maintaining indefinitely at this time, it's always a bit of a wait and see depending on response, but you can always ask what he has in mind.

 

[Caro]

If it comes down to when you give the Metacam every day he does great, when you don't quality of life suffers then you have to decide. But that is usually not the case.

This is my feeling, it is about quality of life. I've been on NSAIDs for 20 years for a bad back. On it I'm totally mobile (I also now use it for migraines), off it I'd need a disc fusion. Deska has been on NSAIDs for 5yrs, daily for the last 2yrs, and with the Carafate has not stomach problems. If he lasted 20yrs on it I'd be ecstatic! A dog has such a short life span that I want to make sure enjoys the time he has. I see people with extremely arthritic dogs who don't medicate and those dogs look miserable. I know Deska off NSAIDs and on them, on them he smiles, skips around and plays, off them he barks and doesn't want to do anything.

For a dog it's very much about quality not quantity of life.

 

[Fasb's Owner]

I should have made it clear that we'll be talking to the vet this week. His office is going to call and follow up sometime between now and Wed to see how Fasb has responded. We'll also be in the office again in January for Fasb's next Adequan shot. The vet didn't make it clear, but I think he's hoping the bottle of Metacam he gave me lasts until then. Depends how many doses a week Fasb needs.

If it comes down to when you give the Metacam every day he does great, when you don't quality of life suffers then you have to decide. But that is usually not the case.

I think I probably misunderstood this part of your post. When I first read the post, I thought you were saying that, when his condition deteriorates to the point where he needs Metacam every day, we should consider having him put to sleep. Rereading, I think I misread that. That's not where you were going, right?

This is my feeling, it is about quality of life. I've been on NSAIDs for 20 years for a bad back. On it I'm totally mobile (I also now use it for migraines), off it I'd need a disc fusion. Deska has been on NSAIDs for 5yrs, daily for the last 2yrs, and with the Carafate has not stomach problems. If he lasted 20yrs on it I'd be ecstatic! A dog has such a short life span that I want to make sure enjoys the time he has. I see people with extremely arthritic dogs who don't medicate and those dogs look miserable. I know Deska off NSAIDs and on them, on them he smiles, skips around and plays, off them he barks and doesn't want to do anything.

For a dog it's very much about quality not quantity of life.

Thank you. I guess I'm not asking the right questions (or, at least, phrasing them well). I've done the reading, so I understand what the side effects could be. My question is: how many dogs go on a NSAID long-term and don't suffer sever side effects? What I[m trying to get a handle on is the likelihood of problems if Fasb needs a NSAID regularly for the rest of his life.

I'm kinda hoping to hear responses like Caro's - that the dog went on Metacam or something similar, did well, and mostly had no major problems. Our concern is that Fasb will have to go on medications and his last years will be a series of issues with stomach bleeding, digestion problems, issues going to the bathroom, etc. - solving one problem but creating new ones, basically.

We don't have anything against NSAIDS or anything else if it will improve Fasb's quality of life and if he can tolerate the medication. Whatever works. Keeping him feeling good for as long as possible is the main goal.

 

[The Quahog]

I think I probably misunderstood this part of your post. When I first read the post, I thought you were saying that, when his condition deteriorates to the point where he needs Metacam every day, we should consider having him put to sleep. Rereading, I think I misread that. That's not where you were going, right?

Oh, of course not!
What I meant to say is that if you reach the stage where he has to be maintained on NSAIDs for quality of life purposes then you can be more concerned about possible side effects and how to prevent them (ie stomach protectorants.) The point being this is best avoided, but certainly the proper course for many situations.
Yes, we have had hip dysplasia and similar situations maintained on NSAIDs for many years with no ill effects.

 

[Fasb's Owner]

You had me worried for a bit, lol. Hoping Fasb stays healthy for a couple years yet.

Does anyone know how many doses a typical 30 lb. sheltie would get from a 10 ml bottle? Vet estimated about 14. Does that sound right? I want to make sure we have a bottle on hand when this bottle runs out, so the dosing schedule doesn't get interrupted.

Also, how long can you store Metacam? It's more cost effective to order a larger size bottle. I'm thinking 100 ml. Largest sizes are 100 and 180, I think. To start with, Fasb is going to take it 2-3 times a week, so a 100 ml bottle should last most of the year (assuming you get about 14 doses out of a 10 ml bottle, which is enough for a month or so).

 

[danisgoat]

Sorry! I said this same thing in your other Metacam post.

My suggestion would be to get blood panels done, I wish I did that with my setter. He was on Metacam and passed away from Renal Failure. We were told that it probably was due to the long term Metacam use. It is something you have to way....long term use and quality of life versus not using it and his quality of life being low. My setter responded well and felt good while on it. He had bad arthritis after getting Lymes disease many times over his life.

 

[Fasb's Owner]

Blood workup was done last week while we were in for checkup. I wouldn't have started giving him Metacam without blook work. I read about the risks before I gave him the first dose. I'll probably have blood work done again in June or whenever we're in for an Adequan shot around that time frame.

 

[danisgoat]

Blood workup was done last week while we were in for checkup. I wouldn't have started giving him Metacam without blook work. I read about the risks before I gave him the first dose. I'll probably have blood work done again in June or whenever we're in for an Adequan shot around that time frame.

Awesome! So you have a good baseline. My setter went on Metacam in June (pre medicine Bloodwork was fine) and died the day after Christmas from Renal failure. Just please make sure to keep an eye on him. If I had to do it again, I would have checked sooner.