Missed contacts--what do you do?

[Toffee's Mom]

I don't actually teach contacts at all, and my dogs rarely miss. When they do, I just keep going. I don't set expectations, so I can't fault them for being wrong.
....

No Contact training? I am intrigued! How do they rarely miss it?

Ashley, I have no trial experience myself so I can't comment on the walk of shame, but I am very interested in hearing all of your guys opinions on it, since that is gonna be Toffee and I soon enough.
I can see myself having a few tho, because Toffee has a low frustration point, lol. Toffee stands and barks at me and I have to get him back on track a few times. No idea how this will translate in the ring instead of class lol

 

[Sharon]

Contacts

I can't say Shadow hasn't been walked off the course but he has when he was younger and it was 2 times and it was because he wanted to make his own course.But for blown contacts I won't do it.Shadow has the best contacts.He can do running and the 2020.I can put him on any contact piece and keep running and he will stay until released. Sting on the other hand baby dog and green gets excited and will blow them in class.He has not blown them in competition yet but I am sure he will.

 

[corbinam]

Anyhow, the point is that there are many ways to train your dog and what you might not do may be the very best thing for another trainer to do.

That is definitely true. When Stacey says that a lot of shelties shut down when corrected, she's right. But, it's definitely not true for all of them.

And, it also depends (to me) on the dog's skill on that particular obstacle. I am actually a lot tougher (not mean, because she's still a baby) on Lexi if she releases from her 2o2o on the dogwalk than if Bentley misses it (he does running). That's because Lexi is extremely confident in her "job" when it comes to the DW. Bentley still isn't sure what's required of him (100% my fault).

 

[ortegah]

That is definitely true. When Stacey says that a lot of shelties shut down when corrected, she's right. But, it's definitely not true for all of them.

And, it also depends (to me) on the dog's skill on that particular obstacle. I am actually a lot tougher (not mean, because she's still a baby) on Lexi if she releases from her 2o2o on the dogwalk than if Bentley misses it (he does running). That's because Lexi is extremely confident in her "job" when it comes to the DW. Bentley still isn't sure what's required of him (100% my fault).

Oh absolutely. If you know your dog knows something inside and out and they don't do it, that's totally different than if they aren't confident yet with that skill.

I'm very lucky that Trax is not like any normal Sheltie. He does not shut down. He is so driven and his world really does revolve around agility. He's fallen off of obstacles so many times he should have broken something by now, but he just jumps up and keeps going like nothing happened. He was bred specifically for performance though and he lives up to it every day

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

You dont teach contacts at all?

Nope. I don't stress over it, my dogs don't stress over it. In training, when they get to the bottom, they get a reward. If they don't, they don't and we move on. I don't want them to think it's anything special, and I don't want them to stress it. Luckily, the dog I am running right now (who NQ'd 4 out of 4 times this weekend, not contact related) is very conscientious about his contacts, so I reward that in training.

I do have one dog who is flying off the side of the teeter, but that's a teeter problem, not a "contact" problem.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

No Contact training? I am intrigued! How do they rarely miss it?

So at our clubs trial a couple of years ago, I watched a club members dog get NQ'd because the dog flew to the bottom of the a-frame, smashed his front legs into the turf for the 2o2o, his rear legs came off the a-frame as he stopped, and as soon as they touched again, fault. I can't remember if it was a four-paw rule thing, or a wrong course, but that NQd the dog.

That day, I decided I was not going to stress my dogs out over the contacts. River has not missed any yet, and Liesl has missed one dog-walk (but she had to poop, so I kinda understand), and has flown off the teeter a couple of times. I really should work on that.

My NQ's the three times I have run excellent have all been the table. I started running my dog in preferred, and the table is lower in 12" than 16". I don't think he understands it's the same thing, and he just runs right over and bounces off the other side.

 

[Justicemom]

Sorry, but I'm one of those people that has walked my dog off before. He is very high strung in competition and it is the only thing that gets through to him. I think just like discipline in children, what works for some doesn't work for others and walking a dog off may seem harsh to some but when you have a dog that knows contacts inside and out(and they also know staying at the start line) and they get to the competition and decide that what they do in class doesn't apply in the ring, that's when you have to get tough. I know I fought the contacts for 2 years with Trax among other things. Once I got through to him that I expect the same behavior in competition that I get at practice, things finally changed. Sure I don't make him hold his contacts all day, but he knows he better come all the way to the bottom and hold it.

Oh another thing though that helped tremendously as well was finding places we compete at that also had run-throughs. Then I could do the run through and when he bounced off or flew off or whatever, I could put him back on and tell him he had to do it.

Anyhow, the point is that there are many ways to train your dog and what you might not do may be the very best thing for another trainer to do.

I would have to agree. You need to know your dog and their motivation. I never experience this in agility yet but many times in obedience. Justice is ring wise. All the practice in the world will not help.

For example, Justice decided when he was in the ring, he didn't have to retrieve the metal scent article. He would indicate it and then pick up the leather right beside it. Teeth fine, never made a mistake in practice. Just he didn't like the metal and knew I wouldn't insist he pick it up in the ring. It went on for 6 months and he NQ at least 12 x because of it. Everyone always says don't correct them in the article pile, they will lose confidence. So I didn't just kept practicing. One day I was sick of it and decided I was going to verbally correct him if he did it again. If the judge threw me out so be it. Sure enough, he did it again and as he picked up the leather, I told him in the sternest voice I had " Find it" my body never moved. His eyes got big as saucers(he could not believe it) and he stopped dead in his tracks drop the leather turned around and picked up the right metal. He never did it again. He knew what to do just chose not to do it and didn't think I would make him.

He also went though a period of time when he would take off on retrieves and go outs without waiting for me to tell him. I would call him off the retrieve.(major no no for most shelties) However, this is a dog that lives to retrieve. I would never do that with Ember and Diva as it would shut them down. Different handling need for different dogs.

 

[ortegah]

I would have to agree. You need to know your dog and their motivation. I never experience this in agility yet but many times in obedience. Justice is ring wise. All the practice in the world will not help.

For example, Justice decided when he was in the ring, he didn't have to retrieve the metal scent article. He would indicate it and then pick up the leather right beside it. Teeth fine, never made a mistake in practice. Just he didn't like the metal and knew I wouldn't insist he pick it up in the ring. It went on for 6 months and he NQ at least 12 x because of it. Everyone always says don't correct them in the article pile, they will lose confidence. So I didn't just kept practicing. One day I was sick of it and decided I was going to verbally correct him if he did it again. If the judge threw me out so be it. Sure enough, he did it again and as he picked up the leather, I told him in the sternest voice I had " Find it" my body never moved. His eyes got big as saucers(he could not believe it) and he stopped dead in his tracks drop the leather turned around and picked up the right metal. He never did it again. He knew what to do just chose not to do it and didn't think I would make him.

He also went though a period of time when he would take off on retrieves and go outs without waiting for me to tell him. I would call him off the retrieve.(major no no for most shelties) However, this is a dog that lives to retrieve. I would never do that with Ember and Diva as it would shut them down. Different handling need for different dogs.

Yep, that's a perfect example! Some Shelties are just not textbook as with any breed and sometimes a training method that may seem harsh to some may be the only thing that works with another dog.