My 2nd USDAA Trial - this weekend

[k9kreationz]

Sorry, but Koji doesn't look like a slow dog to me. I can see that he does like to stay with you.

Have you tried targeting at the bottom of the A-frame? I found when Trax was about 3 years old and we had been trialing and NQ'ing over and over, that when I tested him on his contacts by sending him to a contact, he had NO CLUE what the contact was. Only when I started using a white circle target with a treat and would send him over the A frame and let HIM find the contact, that he realized what in the world was expected of him. To me it does look like Koji doesn't exactly understand what you're asking of him.

Otherwise, he definitely has the ability to be a fast dog! You gotta start pushing him to go faster. When he goes in those tunnels, I would clap and say, "lets go let's go!!!" and see what happens! Why not try it? Can't always play it safe ;-)

Y'know what's interesting....I noticed lately he's a bit slower in the tunnels. BUT, here are some changes. We've been training at an outdoor facility at night. It's a dark colored tunnel. It's dark inside. We were also trialing in a covered arena this weekend. It was dark. In all honesty, with the funky lighting, it was hard to see things clearly. I give the dogs credit for being able to see the jumps, because I was having a hard time seeing it. I also noticed that Koji has been slipping in the tunnels. I can tell when he crashes inside. I can hear it too. Poor thing. Not sure if that's been all a part of why. But trust me, that trot/walk you saw on PSJ is NOT normal. lol. I was like, dear gawd Koji, come on.

I think this weekend was the VERY first time I have ever clapped my hands in a ring to get Koji's attention. He was basically making a 360 turn, in one side, out the other and back towards that in side again, so I called him and clapped my hands. I really wanted to be sure I got his attention. You're right, I should try that more. I do have to be cognizant of where he is in the tunnel though. I have egged him on to go faster (this was awhile back though) and pulled him out instead. I guess it's one of those, he's a more seasoned dog, I can do things again that I couldn't before.

You really don't think he's average speed? That's where he falls mostly on the results lists. In PSJ, I was 3 seconds behind the next fastest dog.

As for the targeting, since I'm retraining using Rachel's box method, for now I won't be targeting it or even asking anything from him. I have to figure out what works for him. And btw, if targeting REALLY worked for him, wouldn't he TRY to stop at the end of the DW? Definitely more work on that.

 

[Sharon]

Usdaa

Oh yeah, that's always bound to happen. I really think that Koji has tons of potential and could really be a fast dog. You can see the spark when he gets to running!

I have to agree with Heather.Kojii has tons of potential.His weaves were beautiful in his runs.Go Kojii!!

 

[k9kreationz]

I'm sure this is something I can discuss with my trainer, but since we don't have class for another 2 weeks. I'll ask you two who are saying I'm holding my poor Koji back. You know who you are.

Let's take Sunday out of the equation as I felt crappy and so out of it and look at other runs. Please. hehehe.

If I rile Koji up, he runs faster, but he's also more handler focused. He barks AT me and doesn't pay attention to the course at all. He has literally run into obstacles because of it. We tried a few times in class. Even my trainer was concerned he'd hurt himself so we stopped for the time being. Any thoughts on how to handle that?

Here's another stupid thing. Imagine this scenario, I've got a nice straight line to a tunnel. Let's say its jump jump tunnel. I yell go on or go tunnel as he's committed to the jump....this is what it seems like he is thinking, "OMG, look at that tunnel, I'm going in, but first this jump, fun fun fun. What Mom? What did you say?" and he slows down or pulls off. I have learned to shut up. Seriously. The more I yell commands, the more likely he's to look at me, or come towards me (one reason why gamblers sucks....especially if it's not a nice line).

I'm open to suggestions and trying things. This is why I want to learn more about Linda's handling system. I think it would somewhat suit us better.

If you watch....let's see....which run. Oh, my Gamblers run. Koji was crazy that run. I am so not proud of that run, so don't judge all the things I did wrong. Just watch him. First, he broke his stay. I knew he was crazy going into the ring. He barks at me the entire time, is even more handler focused than normal. If you watch things from Sat, he's not like that at all. So....that's Koji, being crazy. And once he's like that, it's hard to get him out of the mode.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm not asking to critique runs, but general info about what I can do to avoid him becoming more handler focused.....if I get him crazy?

 

[k9kreationz]

I have to agree with Heather.Kojii has tons of potential.His weaves were beautiful in his runs.Go Kojii!!

He does! And his handler has potential too. lol.

I loved his weaves this weekend. He was awesome and nailed them all (oh wait, minus my Gamblers run). I was very proud of him in the weave dept.

 

[corbinam]

I'm sure this is something I can discuss with my trainer, but since we don't have class for another 2 weeks. I'll ask you two who are saying I'm holding my poor Koji back. You know who you are.

Let's take Sunday out of the equation as I felt crappy and so out of it and look at other runs. Please. hehehe.

If I rile Koji up, he runs faster, but he's also more handler focused. He barks AT me and doesn't pay attention to the course at all. He has literally run into obstacles because of it. We tried a few times in class. Even my trainer was concerned he'd hurt himself so we stopped for the time being. Any thoughts on how to handle that?

Bentley is JUST like this. The more riled up he is, the more he barks at me and bites my pants. I wish I had done a better job videotaping at our last trial because DH was running him in gamblers and he was SO amped. As DH tried to send him to the weaves he just bit DH's pants for like 30 seconds. Naughty boy!

So maybe you don't want to rile Koji up, but you want him to be naughty. You want him to run to a jump on his own, even if you aren't right there with him. You want him to make independent decisions.

You can see it happening a little bit in this video at around 20 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQNH05Mzu7k

The best thing you can is to teach him to go on without you. We use a lot of targeting. I'm not the best person to ask because Bentley is still pretty handler focused, but he has truly changed a lot in the past year and isn't nearly as bad as he was.

It took us MONTHS to get him to send to a tunnel, and to this day he still isn't very good at it.

The trick is to work in baby steps. Can Koji do a pinwheel without you going in between the jumps? If so, great. If not, put the pinwheel close enough together that he can, and use a target plate to reward (not your hand). If he's successful, make it a bit harder. If he's unsuccessful, make it easier (but DO NOT help him).

The problem is that we as handlers take it upon ourselves to "help" the dog when they can't do something. Example: I'm afraid that Bentley can't do a pinwheel unless I'm out supporting that middle jump. So every time we do one, I'm supporting that middle jump. What does Bentley learn? Nothing. He learns to run next to mom because she'll show me exactly what to do. If I can't get there one time, he has no idea what is expected of him because he never learned on his own. The dog needs to learn and differentiate different patterns and focuses: mom is yelling, her arm is out--I should go out and find something here or mom is being quiet, her arms are close to her body--I should go in to her and do something close.

You can work a lot of either ors as well. We still work on these a lot with both dogs. Set up a sequence with two options. A close one, and a farther one (one requires handler focus, one obstacle). An easy one to set up is a pinwheel versus a 180. User your voice and body motion to cue which you want (but don't cheat by going out to the middle jump of the pinwheel).

You spend a lot of time waiting for Koji to complete each obstacle because you complete each obstacle with him. You could really push him faster if you forced him to complete the obstacles on his own and you were able to get on with your job and set up for the next sequence. Did I send you the Stuart video where we worked on that? If not, let me know and I'll PM it to you. You can see Bentley really struggle with the concept!

 

[ortegah]

I'm sure this is something I can discuss with my trainer, but since we don't have class for another 2 weeks. I'll ask you two who are saying I'm holding my poor Koji back. You know who you are.

Let's take Sunday out of the equation as I felt crappy and so out of it and look at other runs. Please. hehehe.

If I rile Koji up, he runs faster, but he's also more handler focused. He barks AT me and doesn't pay attention to the course at all. He has literally run into obstacles because of it. We tried a few times in class. Even my trainer was concerned he'd hurt himself so we stopped for the time being. Any thoughts on how to handle that?

Here's another stupid thing. Imagine this scenario, I've got a nice straight line to a tunnel. Let's say its jump jump tunnel. I yell go on or go tunnel as he's committed to the jump....this is what it seems like he is thinking, "OMG, look at that tunnel, I'm going in, but first this jump, fun fun fun. What Mom? What did you say?" and he slows down or pulls off. I have learned to shut up. Seriously. The more I yell commands, the more likely he's to look at me, or come towards me (one reason why gamblers sucks....especially if it's not a nice line).

I'm open to suggestions and trying things. This is why I want to learn more about Linda's handling system. I think it would somewhat suit us better.

If you watch....let's see....which run. Oh, my Gamblers run. Koji was crazy that run. I am so not proud of that run, so don't judge all the things I did wrong. Just watch him. First, he broke his stay. I knew he was crazy going into the ring. He barks at me the entire time, is even more handler focused than normal. If you watch things from Sat, he's not like that at all. So....that's Koji, being crazy. And once he's like that, it's hard to get him out of the mode.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm not asking to critique runs, but general info about what I can do to avoid him becoming more handler focused.....if I get him crazy?

I understand what you're saying about the barking, but I think he's barking because you're not really using your hands to cue what obstacle to go to. He's looking at you for direction and your hands just aren't showing him where to go. Not to critique the run, but as an example, in that gamblers run, when you want him to go to the tunnel, you're not pointing out the tunnel and your shoulders are moving away from the tunnel.

It's not a matter of just riling him up, but giving him more specific cues and hand/shoulder motions. One without the other just confuses him. I've found that typically shelties that are barking at us during a run are most likely telling us off because we're not telling them what to do, or that they don't understand what's being asked of them. Remember I have one of Koji's relatives

 

[ortegah]

The problem is that we as handlers take it upon ourselves to "help" the dog when they can't do something. Example: I'm afraid that Bentley can't do a pinwheel unless I'm out supporting that middle jump. So every time we do one, I'm supporting that middle jump. What does Bentley learn? Nothing. He learns to run next to mom because she'll show me exactly what to do. If I can't get there one time, he has no idea what is expected of him because he never learned on his own. The dog needs to learn and differentiate different patterns and focuses: mom is yelling, her arm is out--I should go out and find something here or mom is being quiet, her arms are close to her body--I should go in to her and do something close.

I think that summed it up beautifully! We spend so much time helping them that they don't actually understand what is expected of them. That's what I meant about Trax and his contacts. I was always on top of him to stop him at his contacts so he had no idea what a contact was unless I was in the perfect spot. And as we all know, in competition you're hardly ever in the *perfect* spot. They have to fully understand what is expected of them.

 

[k9kreationz]

Thanks Ashley. I can't recall if you had shown me the Stuart video, so please PM me it again.

So, in your opinion, of what you've seen of me over the years, I don't leave Koji's side? Augh! What's even funnier is that when I run, I can't seem to slow down fast enough (I swear to gawd my weight keeps me moving forward - an object in motion, stays in motion - OMG). So even though I tell myself NOT to go in (in a pinwheel for example), I still do cuz I can't slow down, lol. Seriously.

Hmm.....What's interesting is that I don't feel like I'm helping him. In some instances, yes. But not the whole thing. Am I really though? Yikes. I need to rethink things.

 

[corbinam]

So, in your opinion, of what you've seen of me over the years, I don't leave Koji's side? Augh! What's even funnier is that when I run, I can't seem to slow down fast enough (I swear to gawd my weight keeps me moving forward - an object in motion, stays in motion - OMG). So even though I tell myself NOT to go in (in a pinwheel for example), I still do cuz I can't slow down, lol. Seriously.

Instead of going in towards the pinwheel, keep moving laterally or farther down the line (depending on where you're going). You don't have to stop and wait or anything, get on with your job and let Koji do his! Honestly, it's rare that you should be waiting or stopped on course, I think.

PMing you now...

 

[k9kreationz]

It's not a matter of just riling him up, but giving him more specific cues and hand/shoulder motions. One without the other just confuses him. I've found that typically shelties that are barking at us during a run are most likely telling us off because we're not telling them what to do, or that they don't understand what's being asked of them. Remember I have one of Koji's relatives

Oh no, ITA with this 100%. And I know it's me. But hey, he's got a job to do too. But seriously, I do know a lot of the issues is stemming from my handling. And that he's not trained very well to begin with.

I understand what you're saying about the barking, but I think he's barking because you're not really using your hands to cue what obstacle to go to. He's looking at you for direction and your hands just aren't showing him where to go. Not to critique the run, but as an example, in that gamblers run, when you want him to go to the tunnel, you're not pointing out the tunnel and your shoulders are moving away from the tunnel. [\quote]

No no. No using gamblers as an example because I'll be 100% honest, I wasn't trying and I didn't care. However, I'll go look at my body language to see what I am doing wrong, cuz that's always helpful.

So, what I'm figuring out is this. I've stopped using my arms over time because I didn't need them. Koji read more off my position and body (as in feet, shoulders, torso), more than anything else. The one thing that I learned from Daisy, and I thought she was crazy, was even if I run to a jump (on my right side running to the side of it), touch it, and move away in a whole new direction (running laterally away to the left), while holding out my arm to support said jump, Koji will take it.

Like you and Ashley have said. I run by things, wait for him to take it, and move on. Versus, I can run by it, support it and move onto the next thing while he's taking the object back there somewhere. Dangit! LOL. Sometimes I hate this sport. It's too technical, like golf. Augh!