Natural Breeding being bred out?

From what I have read, I do think that natural breeding could be bred out. For example, some an otherwise breeding-quality dog has genetic physical reason for not being able to breed a bitch. So AI is used and some of his breeding-quality puppies inherit this physical disability so that they cannot breed naturally either.
A dog who cannot breed naturally for reasons that could be genetic should not be bred.
IMO, AI should only be used in some cases, and sparingly.

tofu pup said:
Again, I reiterate: I love purebred dogs. I love dog shows. But I have no love for the disturbing trends of over-exaggeration without regard to good health that are apparent in many dog breeds.
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And I also agree.
 
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Here's a webpage that collects and compares photos of German and US show-lines from the 1930's-40's to present.

http://www.royalair.org/pasttopresent.htm

Comparing German-US, the German show breeders have chosen the same severe hind angulation that the US ones have. They have also taken up the cause of a severely roached back. I haven't a clue why (because a back like that is generally considered a fault in any other breed), but that's what they've selected for.

Some photos of more moderate working-line dogs are also included, for comparison.

I honestly can't comment on the rate of injury/unsoundness in GSDs. But one has to wonder - if a good, sound utility dog needs to have a superangulated rear to do his job, why don't any of the other Herding breeds' Standards call for it? Why don't the GSDs used by the military, police, and SAR have superangulated rears?

This kind of thing is what makes the AKC, and those who participate in Conformation shows, appear irrelevant and uncaring. The AKC needs to put its house in order, or it will be reordered for them.
 
great website tofupup! The difference in the shepherds now from the older ones is just appaling! The gsd's I grew up with looked like the the ones from the '50's-60's. I do know the severe angulation is being bred for the flying trot it looks pretty in the ring, but it does cause health problems down the road with the hips. The show line gsd's could not go out and herd for hours it would break down very fast.
 
JessicaR said:
great website tofupup! The difference in the shepherds now from the older ones is just appaling! The gsd's I grew up with looked like the the ones from the '50's-60's. I do know the severe angulation is being bred for the flying trot it looks pretty in the ring, but it does cause health problems down the road with the hips. The show line gsd's could not go out and herd for hours it would break down very fast.
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Yep its the flying trot. The increased angulation and the slope back increase the stride length and the drive of the rear legs to produce it. I was watching the doberman ring the other day and was appauled by the overagulated rears and sloped backs that many of the dogs had vs what I was seeing 10 yrs ago. I do hope that breed is not moving in that direction as Dobermans do not need more health problems. :( (a breed I'd like to own but won't because of they health issues)

The one thing I do know about shelties is that you need to be very careful not to discourage breeding behavior in young males that you hope to bred natually. A correction for mounting can cause them to become unsure of the process later in life. Shelties as a sensitive breed need their egos stroked. Some of the shelties I know that have to be AI were runined by inapproiate management of youngsters.
 
thats really sad and disturbing ive never seen any German shepherds that looked like the ones in the ring. u can just tell by looking at them that something is seriously wrong. i cant believe that thats what the standard is for GS. the poor dogs look like theyve been abused or something:no:
 
kim86 said:
thats really sad and disturbing ive never seen any German shepherds that looked like the ones in the ring. u can just tell by looking at them that something is seriously wrong. i cant believe that thats what the standard is for GS.
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Actually, that's how the standard has been interpretted, not what it says to breed for. (It does mentioned a 25 degree angle, but on the croup, not the entire back.) The breed standards themselves are actually subject to quite a bit of relative speculation.
 
graydawntreader is quite right; the interpretation of that Standard is where many of these breeds got into trouble. Careful reform of some standards - adding concepts of moderation, closing off open-ended goals (statements like "The _____ should be as _____ as possible" do not invite moderation), etc. - could be a very good starting-point. The dogs' individual health and soundness should become a concern.
 
I would completely agree Narmowen. And breeding dogs that will not mate naturally can only add to the (already here) problem.
 
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