Neighbor Problem

[Lunatic59]

This is both in reference to human and canine behavior.

A little background: I have a neighbor who has a rescue long hair Chihuahua mix (Shilo). They got him around the same time we got our Schipperke rescue (Skully). Both dogs had fear issues and both are very aware of strangers and strange dogs. However, they seemed to bond the first time they met. Tails wag and noses sniff and, unfortunately, leads tangle. Skully is one of the few dogs Shilo can be around safely.

My problem is our new pups. Skully and the pups are fine together, but if Shilo is out, he goes crazy with barking and a very aggressive stance towards the puppies. Our yard is fenced and the puppies are never out in the yard unaccompanied by an adult. Our neighbor's yard is not fenced and Shilo is often walked by their children (ages 8 through 13) and they sometimes struggle with him.

The pups are curious about Shilo and will stick their noses through the fence. He's snapped at them already and I fear that if this continues there's an unfortunate incident in our future.

The biggest problem, though is the neighbor's attitude. She insists on bringing Shilo to the fence to "introduce" the puppies to him over and over again when he has shown open fear/aggression. I'm pretty sure it's fear motivated since he pulls back most of the time and pushing him towards the fence forces the aggressive posturing. I've said several times that she shouldn't force him into a situation in which he's obviously not comfortable, but she continues to hope that he'll magically change.

My question is how to I prevent this behavior (both the neighbor and Shilo) from negatively impacting the socialization of my puppies? We have successfully introduced them to most of the other dogs in the neighborhood and there have been no problems other than a little apprehension around a Schnauzer puppy who was a bit hyper at their first meeting.

 

[dblock]

If I were you I and I had the money, I would install a nanny camera in the backyard. The neighbor is clearly instigating negative behavior in your dog and you have made her aware of his aggressive tendency. If she continues to call your dog over regardless of what you have said to her than I would have no problem involving the Police. Her behavior needs to be documented, if for anything else to protect your dog. If after calling the Police and she still does nothing, Call your local Community Relations Officer to come and speak to her about how "her" behavior is negatively affecting your dog

 

[Jess041]

By forcing Shilo to meet the pups, do you mean holding him and carrying him over to your fence? Or just bringing him over by lead?

I would just turn around and bring your dogs inside as soon as you see she's outside with her dog.. especially if she's going to ignorant about her dog's level of comfort around unfamiliar dogs.

 

[JLSOhio51]

I would just turn around and bring your dogs inside as soon as you see she's outside with her dog.. especially if she's going to ignorant about her dog's level of comfort around unfamiliar dogs.

Jess041:
This is exactly the thought that was going through my mind as I read the original post (Lunatic59 said that the pups are never in the yard unattended by an adult). I realize that this would sort of be penalizing the pups with reduced outside play time, but the alternative is a potentially dangerous confrontation with an aggressive neighbor's dog. Calling the police may not bear any fruit since I doubt that her calling to the pups from inside her own yard would be illegal even though it is not good neighbor activity.

 

[JacqueZ]

While I would say talking to the neighbor and making it clear you don't want her to do this anymore is the first step, if that doesn't work (and she sounds a little stubborn), you could try putting up a smaller fence within the perimeter of your fence about a foot from the side your neighbor is on... My parents had to do this for their dogs when they had aggressive dogs move in next door. Kept the snapping and the barking to a minimum, allowed all the dogs to be outside even if the next door dogs were out.

Maybe you can tell the neighbor you'd like to wait until the pups are grown before trying to socialize them with her dog... tell her you're worried that the puppy hyperness could set back the socialization training she's doing with her dog. (or you know, just generally spin it as if you're trying to help her...)

 

[Lunatic59]

Jess041:
This is exactly the thought that was going through my mind as I read the original post (Lunatic59 said that the pups are never in the yard unattended by an adult). I realize that this would sort of be penalizing the pups with reduced outside play time, but the alternative is a potentially dangerous confrontation with an aggressive neighbor's dog. Calling the police may not bear any fruit since I doubt that her calling to the pups from inside her own yard would be illegal even though it is not good neighbor activity.

Our house is big enough to allow indoor play time (They've already got a "racetrack" worn in the carpet ). My concern is if we are teaching them to be either afraid of other dogs or that other dogs are off limits and to be avoided in the future.

I also don't want to penalize Shilo for the limited time he has to interact with Skully who seems to be one of his few friends. Ideally I'd like them to take Shilo to classes to properly socialize him, if that's even possible at this point. They claim he is protective, but it looks like a fear response to me.

As for getting the police involved, I'd like to preserve the neighborhood peace. Pus I doubt there's much they would/could do as long as Shilo is in his yard and we are in ours. The fence, while technically is 5 feet from the property line (by code) it's not enforced.

By forcing Shilo to meet the pups, do you mean holding him and carrying him over to your fence? Or just bringing him over by lead?

She brings Shilo out on his lead (using a harness, not a collar) and comes over to the fence where the puppies will run to greet her. At this point Shilo is usually behind her barking and she slowly shortens the leash until Shilo is either next to her or between her legs and the will hold him there while petting the puppies though the fence. His barking will escalate and he will have the fur on his back raised. The behavior is directed at the pups, not Skully, who will be right there at the fence as well wagging his tail.

I don't want to have to separate the pups from Skully and I don't want to teach Skully that his friend next door is a no-no.

 

[celloyogi]

What about installing opaque material on your side of the fence, at least high enough that none of the dogs can see each other. Silt fencing is relatively cheap and might be a good option. Example: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-3-ft...4987-46-3606/203486206?N=1z0zbs0#.Udc1l_nVAfU

I don't think bringing your dogs in to avoid the other dog would be a negative for them. If the other dog is acting aggressive, nipping, etc, you are providing an 'out' for your dogs instead of leaving them in a position to become sensitized. They are not getting any positive socialization experiences from interactions with the other dog. Plus, your clueless neighbor seems to think your dogs are a tool for her to use. Not fair to your dogs, and most definitely not fair to your neighbor's dog, who we all can tell is getting pretty much the opposite treatment that he should.

 

[Jaynie]

I agree with the post above. I don't see why one non-friendly dog would give the puppies any kind of fear response unless the other dog attacks them, and as long as a fence separates them, it shouldn't be a problem.

However, it could become a problem should they sense that you (or whatever adult is in the yard with them) are anxious or fearful.

My first Sheltie was extremely well socialized from the age of six weeks on. He was in obedience classes, and had play dates and other activities with the people and dogs in our classes. These dogs ranged in sizes from 100 pound GSDs to Neechee himself at 12 pounds.

During his senior years, Neechee and I lived with my parents, who would walk him while I was recovering from surgery. There was a man who also walked his dog (a little white Maltese) when Neechee was walked, and who apparently had absolutely no socialization at all. The first time Neechee saw this dog, he smiled and wagged his tail politely. However, the Maltese went ballistic barking and charging. The owner had a good grip on the leash, and when the dog came near enough to be a nuisance, he just picked it up and carried it.

Poor good-natured Neechee, who had never met a hostile dog in his long 15 year life, I guess felt somewhat rejected by this dog. Each and every time, from then on (about 3 years more) he would see this dog, he would just stop and stand there, and occasionally do a low, offended growl, which I never corrected him for, as that's as far as it ever got. I've never seen a dog act insulted and hurt towards another dog, but I'd swear that's what it was.

Neechee has been gone a few years now, but the guy still walks his little Maltese past my parents' house. And each time I see them, I chuckle just a bit, and give a little under-my-breath growl.

 

[Caro]

I agree with the post above. I don't see why one non-friendly dog would give the puppies any kind of fear response unless the other dog attacks them, and as long as a fence separates them, it shouldn't be a problem.

Actually, that's not true. I've had this happen to me when my dogs were young, I've also had friends have this happen. The aggression coming from the other side of the fence will be teaching them to a) be fearful of the fence line or b) it's necessary to react at the fence line and you will forever have fence barkers. Don't under-estimate how much your pups are taking in and learning from the other dog.

Honestly, I agree with Jess that when Shilo is in the yard the pups should be brought inside - Skully can stay outside if he gets along with Shilo. I know you say you don't want to penalise Shilo, but you have a greater responsibility to your pups.

You are right being concerned that your neighbour's actions could escalate her dog's behaviours. Its a common misconception that you should take a dog up to 'socialise' with a dog on the other side of the fence. But it is one of the key reasons why dogs attack other dogs they live next door to. The fear response just keeps escalating. In addition your neighbour is forcing her dog into the situation - he has little choice if he wants to go over and no option to leave - it makes things worse.

If you want the dogs to be friendly meetings should be done on neutral territory, moving around (like walking) is the most positive way. Perhaps you can suggest to your neighbour that her dog and the pups go out for a walk together. Even if it's just around the block, if you can do it regularly it should help reduce the association between your pups, the fence and fear.

 

[Tabitha]

I agree with Caro. But I've a feeling you may not be able to walk them together at first. Maybe you could try scent socializing for a few days? Take a dish rag or hand towel and rub your dogs with it (maybe use different rags for each dog). Give them to your neighbor and ask her to put them were her dog can smell them. 'Re-scent' the rags everyday or twice a day until the dog is used to it. Then slowly work on the one on one social skills. Maybe at a distance at first. The chihuahua may try to pee on the rag though. Just thought I'd give you heads up on that!