raw diet!

The amount of bone that you feed makes a big impact on the firmness of the stools. More bone = firmer stools. Less bone = softer stools. Chicken necks, backs, and wings are VERY boney. Not much meat on those. Try feeding meatier pieces of chicken like bone-in chicken breast, thighs or drumsticks. Or you can add some boneless chicken to a meal that is high in bone, so a wing and some boneless chicken breast for example.

I generally don't like to add "extras" to try and manipulate the stools. If I have tried everything else, then I will add something like pumpkin, but only as a last option. Pumpkin will often "fix" constipation or diarrhea, but it is an artificial fix, you aren't actually taking care of the issue that caused the problem to begin with. So start with just adding some more meaty meat to the meal and see if that loosens things up.
 
ok so maybe she is not constipated?? she poops, it was just 2 small balls of poop. I will add more meat to this meal. how about an egg, when should I add and egg to her meal?

oh and no I havent given any fruits, veggies, or tripe. other than the piece of celery she ate yesterday.
 
What color are the balls of poop? Are they white or brown? White indicates that there is a lot of bone in the poop, hence add more meat. If they are brown and she is not straining or having difficulty pooping, then they are normal raw poops. Raw poops are much smaller than kibble poops, since poop is made up of all the stuff from the food that could not be utilized by the body, filler ... Less garbage in, less garbage out.

As for egg, it is a different protein than chicken (yes, I realize that chickens come from eggs, but the protein structure of the two sources is different), so treat it like you would any other new protein source. Feed one source for two weeks, gradually add in a new source if all is going well with the first, wait for a week or so before adding a third protein source. Only add new sources if she is handling the first source well, if there is any splart action, take a step back and go back to feeding only the sources that she was stable on.

As for fruit and veggies, they don't need to make up any significant portion of the diet. If you are balancing the meat:bone:organ ratios correctly, adding as much variety as you can access (when she is adjusted, of course), and supplementing only for known deficiencies, then there is no need for fruits or veggies. If you have access to green tripe, then it is a fabulous thing to add to the diet (again, treat as a new protein source). It contains digestive enzymes and beneficial bacteria that are very healthy for the digestive tract. I try to feed it about once a week, no need to feed any more frequently than that. I use either frozen tripe patties from something like Urban Carnivore, or canned tripe from Tripett.
 
they were light brown. she doesnt seem to have trouble going. I was just planing on the explosive diarria I have read about.
so I will add an egg maybe next week then if she continues to do good with the chicken.
where do you find green tripe?? I havent seen that before.
 
Make sure you add fruits and vegetables to the diet. I've personally have never fed my dogs raw.... but, I am studing to be a veterinary technician and have just recently finished the course on nutrition. Dogs have got to have some fruits and veggies, milk and eggs in there... meat by itself will not be a balanced diet. Dog can do very well on meat-based diets if adequate complement foods are present. Valine, an essential amino acid is only found in grains and legumes. Threonine another essential amino acid is only found in eggs and milk. And the list goes on.

A raw diet is great! But, just make sure that meat is not your sole source.
 
Yes, meat should not be the sole food given, but that is why I give meaty bones and I feed a 'pray' model, so they also get the organ meat, which will have the vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids that they require. The tripe will also provide the enzymes, like Dayna said.

I personally add some veggies and fruit to a meal, but definitely not every meal, and I add vitamins as supplements too, as you can safely give most, not all, vitamins is excess to humans and dogs and they will be very healthy. I personally do not think that the 'minimum' daily suggested doses of vitamins are enough for humans and dogs, so I give extra, but if the dog is getting the whole animal to eat, they will be getting all they need. Plus, it is important to vary the type of 'meat'/animal they get once in a while, as they will get different nutrients from different sources of food. I don't vary it daily, but the older one, Chinook, does get a variety. Maia, who is only on it for a week, only gets ground up chicken now, until she does well with it, again like Dayna said.

There is a lot to know about feeding raw. I am still learning, so advice from people like Dayna and other forums, and books is wonderful. I really enjoy reading everything and all advice. After all, we all want to do right by our furbabies.

Once comment and compliment, I really appreciate that this forum has such a diversity of people on it, and we all get along, and no one gets upset, or anything with people of different points of view. It is a breath of fresh air. So thank you to all!
 
I feed Treader PM (prey model) raw, which is 80% meat, 10% organ, and 10% bones. I'm sure that GeeRome has already mentioned that though.
Feeding vegetables would be the BARF raw diet and when I studied on the raw diets, I decided to go PM instead of BARF. Treader doesn't like vegetables anyways.
 
SheltieLuver said:
Make sure you add fruits and vegetables to the diet. I've personally have never fed my dogs raw.... but, I am studing to be a veterinary technician and have just recently finished the course on nutrition. Dogs have got to have some fruits and veggies, milk and eggs in there... meat by itself will not be a balanced diet. Dog can do very well on meat-based diets if adequate complement foods are present. Valine, an essential amino acid is only found in grains and legumes. Threonine another essential amino acid is only found in eggs and milk. And the list goes on.

A raw diet is great! But, just make sure that meat is not your sole source.
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No, veggies, fruits, grains, and dairy are not needed in a raw diet. Dogs do not have the digestive enzymes or intestinal bacteria required to digest raw veggies and fruits. Feed your dog a carrot, then watch the poop the next day. It will be full of little orange bits ... dogs can't digest them. Likewise with dairy. Mature mammals no longer produce the enzymes necessary to digest dairy products. Even most human adults have some level of lactose intolerance. Dogs do not utilize nutrients in dairy efficiently, so whatever you were hoping to obtain from feeding dairy is mostly going to waste. Additionally, too much dairy (or in some cases, any dairy at all) will cause severe digestive upset.

I'm not saying just to feed meat and not to worry about the nutrient balance of the meals you are feeding. Definitely do the math and number crunching required. But, when following the prey model guideline of 80% meat, 10% edible bone, 5% liver, and 5% secreting organ it is completely possible (and quite easy) to meet the nutrient requirements of a dog (as per the NRC nutrient guidelines).

If you wish to feed veggies, they MUST be steamed heavily and then pureed. This will assist in breaking down the cell walls allowing the dogs to utilize the nutrients within. Without steaming and pureeing, dogs are incapable of breaking the plant cell walls. Veggies should not make up more than 5% of the prey model diet, if you wish to feed them at all.
 
I'm sorry, but I must disagree... contrary to popolar beliefs dogs are not 100%carnivores. They cannot and will not be able to get 100% nutritional requirements on meat alone. When I say essential amino acids... essential means it is not possible whatsoever that the body can create on its own the amount of amino acids that it needs to be a healthy animal. The following is essintial for a canine in order to be healthy...

Tryptophan, Methionine, Valine, Threonine, Phenylalanin, Leucine, Isoleucine, Lysine, Histidine, and Arginine. Do your homework... look them up... some are only found in fruits and veggies..... I'm not saying the dog could not get the needed nutrients from stomach contents and intestines on a carcass.... that is possible. But what I am saying is a 100% requirement.... if you do not feed organ meats your animal will have a deficient diet.

Why is it that you can get your dog to eat veggies in the first place if they do not like them???? Think about it? We don't enjoy eating acorns and tree bark... but they aren't required in our diet... but they are for a rodent. :yes:
 
SheltieLuver said:
But what I am saying is a 100% requirement.... if you do not feed organ meats your animal will have a deficient diet.

Why is it that you can get your dog to eat veggies in the first place if they do not like them???? Think about it? We don't enjoy eating acorns and tree bark... but they aren't required in our diet... but they are for a rodent. :yes:
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I am feeding organ meat, as I stated in my other posts on the topic. A prey model diet requires 10% organ meat, half of that must be liver the other half can be the other secreting organs.

Some dogs here eat panties ... does that mean that they need them as part of a balanced diet? Liking and needing are two different things. I never said that my dogs won't eat veggies ... they will eat them, they like them. But they also like marshmallows. It is weak logic to assume that the ability or willingness of a dog to eat a certain item of food dictates whether or not that item is required in a diet for the species.

And, I generally do not like tossing around things like this, but since the standard has already been set in previous posts and my intelligence is being questioned with the comment of "do your homework", I would like to say that I have done my homework. 4 years of it in fact. I graduated with a degree in Animal Nutrition (Bachelor of Science in Agriculture, majoring in Animal Science) in 2006. Significantly more "homework" than one nutrition course. I have crunched the numbers, comparing the diet that I am feeding to the NRC requirements for dog nutrition, and can assure you that I am feeding a completely balanced diet comprised solely of meat, edible bone, and organ.
 
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