danisgoat
Moderator
This is a great suggestion. My trainer requests that we do this from the start. She does not believe in the dogs having free access to toys all the time.
Rewards: Food vs. Toy
- Thread starter corbinam
- Start date
This is a great suggestion. My trainer requests that we do this from the start. She does not believe in the dogs having free access to toys all the time.
SheltieChe
Forums Sage
hmm, here is your answer in one sentence- Its your choice game...
and funny you mention, we just did same thing tonight for dinner... Leo is good tugger and loves toys but prefers dinner over tugging... well I put big bowl of raw dinner and we tugged right in front of it... Point is we do what DaMama offers and good choice gets rewarded and you set up as far from bowl of food as you have to or start with low value treats and build from there...
We just started puppy peaks series with SG and clips are shown are just amazing. One of them has live toy/ dead toy game where you have 3 tugging toys and start tugging with one then put it aside and start offering another and see where puppy choice is- playing alone with first tug or with what DaMama is playing now, then third one- point is you start building from baby on that Value is ALWAYS with DaMama...
I am doing it with both my pups even they not wee puppies anymore, it is great fun!
NO toy boxes in the house, everything in the drawer
this is article how to build toy motivation
http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm
Tugging builds drive so it is a must for low or normal drive dog. For those that already nuts with drive, yes, you go with food more. If you read Shaping success you remember Buzz insanity so SG used large chunks of food to get him pay attention. You want to keep your pup arousal safely in the middle when they aroused enough not to go around and sniff every piece of grass and not over aroused so they glaze over and refuse food or tug...
and funny you mention, we just did same thing tonight for dinner... Leo is good tugger and loves toys but prefers dinner over tugging... well I put big bowl of raw dinner and we tugged right in front of it... Point is we do what DaMama offers and good choice gets rewarded and you set up as far from bowl of food as you have to or start with low value treats and build from there...
We just started puppy peaks series with SG and clips are shown are just amazing. One of them has live toy/ dead toy game where you have 3 tugging toys and start tugging with one then put it aside and start offering another and see where puppy choice is- playing alone with first tug or with what DaMama is playing now, then third one- point is you start building from baby on that Value is ALWAYS with DaMama...
I am doing it with both my pups even they not wee puppies anymore, it is great fun!
NO toy boxes in the house, everything in the drawer
this is article how to build toy motivation
http://www.clickerdogs.com/createamotivatingtoy.htm
Tugging builds drive so it is a must for low or normal drive dog. For those that already nuts with drive, yes, you go with food more. If you read Shaping success you remember Buzz insanity so SG used large chunks of food to get him pay attention. You want to keep your pup arousal safely in the middle when they aroused enough not to go around and sniff every piece of grass and not over aroused so they glaze over and refuse food or tug...
SheltieChe
Forums Sage
oh yeah and training sessions in the loo / low level of distractions/ usually best in the beginning
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
I hear ya
I don't have a tug type toy that he LOVES as much as this ONE squeaky ball, but as you know placement of reward is one of the most important issues in agility training... so when you need to reward by your side etc a tug would be way better than that ball... BUT ball is higher value than tennis ball, food or any other tug with ball attached, bait pouch or what have you.
He WILL play with all of the above, but the value ranking is out of whack.. but when he needs to drive for a toy like in a jumping grid you better believe that ball comes out, lol. THE only time he gets to play with that ball now is for agility... Also for Toffee he focuses on ME not the toy itself... He knows I am the fun, the toy is the tool... So that is good,just wish he would love the tug toys MORE than that stupid ball, lol.
I am a TOTAL believer in tugging, because it really de-stresses my dog, believe it or not! It gets him engaged and I need to play more of the freeze game to get control faster, BUT it makes him focus more on me and somehow it builds trust and relaxation for Mr Worrypants!
SO keep trying to find what works for her, a friend of mine at class couldn't get her dog to stop sniffing and charging all bags and backpacks on the floor (learned self rewarding behaviour, clearly).. SO my Instructor said, ok, this is what she is asking for, lets give it to her.. so they used cloth shopping bags with treats in them to get her focused!! She just now will tug in class and they were able to switch to a more manageable bait pouch since
I don't have a tug type toy that he LOVES as much as this ONE squeaky ball, but as you know placement of reward is one of the most important issues in agility training... so when you need to reward by your side etc a tug would be way better than that ball... BUT ball is higher value than tennis ball, food or any other tug with ball attached, bait pouch or what have you.
He WILL play with all of the above, but the value ranking is out of whack.. but when he needs to drive for a toy like in a jumping grid you better believe that ball comes out, lol. THE only time he gets to play with that ball now is for agility... Also for Toffee he focuses on ME not the toy itself... He knows I am the fun, the toy is the tool... So that is good,just wish he would love the tug toys MORE than that stupid ball, lol.
I am a TOTAL believer in tugging, because it really de-stresses my dog, believe it or not! It gets him engaged and I need to play more of the freeze game to get control faster, BUT it makes him focus more on me and somehow it builds trust and relaxation for Mr Worrypants!
SO keep trying to find what works for her, a friend of mine at class couldn't get her dog to stop sniffing and charging all bags and backpacks on the floor (learned self rewarding behaviour, clearly).. SO my Instructor said, ok, this is what she is asking for, lets give it to her.. so they used cloth shopping bags with treats in them to get her focused!! She just now will tug in class and they were able to switch to a more manageable bait pouch since
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
I guess what I was saying although badly with relaying the conservation with my trainer is that a dog can do fine without tugging. As Danielle said it up to the individual dog. I was made to feel bad for years because my dogs didn't tug . So with Diva I taught it and now it is a problem. If food is more motivating for a dog in a certain situation than tugging but gets the results you want why not use it? Why can't you get the excitement up with food like a tug?
I guess if I was working on building the toy drive with Lexi, I just wouldn't use food duing training until she was working better for the toy. Don't give her the option. It is likely she will always find food more motivating than tugging and toys when both are present. Lexi can't change her preferences anymore than we can.
SheltieChe wrote Tugging builds drive so it is a must for low or normal drive dog.
If it is a must, what do you do with a dog with zero toy drive? Ember is like this and a super low drive dog. She has never played with a toy in her life. I tried for years to teach her and it just doesn't motivate her. Seriously, she walked over when Diva and I were playing with her stuffed toy, picked it up and squeaked it 3x and dropped with the look of "I don't get it on her face" and walked off. She will tug on her leash but it is only for the promise of food.
I guess if I was working on building the toy drive with Lexi, I just wouldn't use food duing training until she was working better for the toy. Don't give her the option. It is likely she will always find food more motivating than tugging and toys when both are present. Lexi can't change her preferences anymore than we can.
SheltieChe wrote Tugging builds drive so it is a must for low or normal drive dog.
If it is a must, what do you do with a dog with zero toy drive? Ember is like this and a super low drive dog. She has never played with a toy in her life. I tried for years to teach her and it just doesn't motivate her. Seriously, she walked over when Diva and I were playing with her stuffed toy, picked it up and squeaked it 3x and dropped with the look of "I don't get it on her face" and walked off. She will tug on her leash but it is only for the promise of food.
romeosangiovese
Forums Enthusiast
Wow Romeo sounds just like Ember! I had to reward tugging with food before I actually got him to do it! He would come around when Juliet and I are having a rousing game of tug and try to join in, but he would get bored quickly and walk away.
corbinam
Moderator
Shelli, Bentley is the same way. I can sometimes "ask" him to tug, and he will. But he just doesn't get it.
I didn't think of it, but when you said that you can't change their preferences, it makes sense. I could probably put tugging on command for Bentley. But that's not fair because it isn't really a reward. The whole thing just seems to frustrate him.
SheltieChe
Forums Sage
I wish I had all the answers to training. If anyone is watching puppy peaks you could see how carefully SG building tug and other toys drive in her 4-5 weeks old puppy so yes, it is a learned behavior and not something puppy is born with. Sure some dogs have higher drive and will naturally retrieve, tug and play with toys and some need more motivation but motivation it is. Is it a big problem if your dog only food motivated?- it is all relative but it is much easier to work with dog that is both toy and food motivated. Because food causes satiation which known as cookie coma 
If you have low tugging element, try for next couple weeks carry small tug with you and start playing with it at the moments of highest arousal for the dog- i.e. if you dog goes nuts when you return home, or at the sign of leash because its means going for walks or when dog is about to have zoomies etc
Pair up your toy or tug with highest level of arousal that dog has and see if that helps.
If you have low tugging element, try for next couple weeks carry small tug with you and start playing with it at the moments of highest arousal for the dog- i.e. if you dog goes nuts when you return home, or at the sign of leash because its means going for walks or when dog is about to have zoomies etc
Pair up your toy or tug with highest level of arousal that dog has and see if that helps.
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
I wish I had all the answers to training. If anyone is watching puppy peaks you could see how carefully SG building tug and other toys drive in her 4-5 weeks old puppy so yes, it is a learned behavior and not something puppy is born with. Sure some dogs have higher drive and will naturally retrieve, tug and play with toys and some need more motivation but motivation it is. Is it a big problem if your dog only food motivated?- it is all relative but it is much easier to work with dog that is both toy and food motivated. Because food causes satiation which known as cookie coma
If you have low tugging element, try for next couple weeks carry small tug with you and start playing with it at the moments of highest arousal for the dog- i.e. if you dog goes nuts when you return home, or at the sign of leash because its means going for walks or when dog is about to have zoomies etc
Pair up your toy or tug with highest level of arousal that dog has and see if that helps.
I agree
I thought FOR SURE Toffee would never tug... but my instructor wouldn't let me give up on it, so I was dragging that darn thing with me all the time, LOL
I ended up buying that tugging leash instead and that made a difference to me, as I didn't feel defeated LOL... eventually that worked, haha... However, the little stinker will always prefer the stupid squeaky ball from the grocery store for $4.99
We are not doing agility yet but after reading a post a little while ago on teaching your dog to tug we decided to give it a try with Mikos to see if it would work to get his attention when he is fixated on something. It was interesting, I even made a couple of fleece tug toys to peak his interest. The one toy was kind of long so one day I decided to put the loop around my ankle and walk around. Successful to the point that we don't wear the toy anymore because if you're not paying attention you may end up on your face! It works about 90% of the time to get his attention.