Running Contacts

[ortegah]

With Trax there was no way we could do running contacts. He's entirely too fast for me as is AND he keeps his head up when he runs, not down so he tries to jump off early in anticipation of the next obstacle. I need a split second to get a breath of air as well so stopping for a moment helps

That being said, we ARE training Maverick with running contacts. The method? We have a stride regulator which in our case is boxes taped together that sit between the top two wooden slats across the down side of the A-frame so he gets air there and then there's a mini tunnel(pop up laundry basket with the bottom cut out ) at the bottom so he puts his head down and runs through it and straight forward. That's the way our trainer does it and it's working really well for him. He naturally keeps his head down and crouches kinda like a border collie so this works great for him.

 

[DogIsMyMantra]

Here's our first session with the manners minder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrM8qIxj-Ig

Bel had a good percentage of hits, but I think the main thing I want to gain from this first lesson was working on my timing. I'm hoping that reviewing the videos will help me be more accurate in rewarding the correct striding and not just hitting yellow (which she technically did every time...but isn't what we are aiming for here!)

And yes, there was a horse that came over to watch her first session. Gotta love training in the country!

 

[corbinam]

Here's our first session with the manners minder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrM8qIxj-Ig

Bel had a good percentage of hits, but I think the main thing I want to gain from this first lesson was working on my timing. I'm hoping that reviewing the videos will help me be more accurate in rewarding the correct striding and not just hitting yellow (which she technically did every time...but isn't what we are aiming for here!)

And yes, there was a horse that came over to watch her first session. Gotta love training in the country!

Oh man, April...I wish you the best of luck. I had a lot of the same problems (rewarding jumps that were NOT strides). Hope it continues to go well!

 

[SheltieChe]

well,here goes my hope for running contacts- I was told it is unreliable even with decent training, will take about a year to get it going, and I need 3-4 days a week avail A frame, dog walk and 12 foot board. Since info I was told by very expert, I guess have to stick with 2 on 2 off....

 

[Phebe*DD]

well,here goes my hope for running contacts- I was told it is unreliable even with decent training, will take about a year to get it going, and I need 3-4 days a week avail A frame, dog walk and 12 foot board. Since info I was told by very expert, I guess have to stick with 2 on 2 off....

I was told the same thing, especially with the DW. That's why we're doing 2o2o on the DW and teeter. I had the training director evaluate where we were at a couple of months ago, and her recommendation was told keep a running contact on the frame with Phebe, because her natural stride works for a running contact on that piece of equipment.

My impression is that often judges are more likely to call a dog with running contacts, especially a very fast dog. Case in point -- at our New Years trial there was an Aussie with a lightning fast DW with running contacts. Even though it looked to most of us that the dog hit the contact every time, the judge called the contact on that dog 2 out of 3 times. We were able to see the contact directly, but the handler was always in the judge's line of sight when the contact was called.

Also, and this was a teeter, one of my instructors had his teeter contact called the finals of USDAA Nationals. When he asked the judge about it the judge said, "You were in my way and I couldn't see, so had to assume the dog missed."

Maybe it's different in international competition where running contacts are more common. Also, slower and moderate-speed dogs may not be as likely to have their running contacts called.

 

[corbinam]

Also, and this was a teeter, one of my instructors had his teeter contact called the finals of USDAA Nationals. When he asked the judge about it the judge said, "You were in my way and I couldn't see, so had to assume the dog missed."

Wow. I was always told that if the judge couldn't see, he couldn't call it. I've seen a dog knock a bar before, and the judge was notified afterwards. Despite the "proof" he said, "If I didn't see it, I can't call it". I think that's a much fairer attitude.

Back to the original topic, I've also heard that running contacts are much harder to train, and require CONSTANT maintenance. Obviously we're no success story. Despite them being harder, I still think that in some cases, it's the right thing to train.

 

[Phebe*DD]

Ashley, I've heard the same, but if I recall correctly, the judge was from Australia, so maybe that was a factor in his reading of the situation.

I'm not saying that running contacts are wrong or should never be trained, just that they require numerous and frequent training sessions, lots of maintenance and you run some risks of questionable calls in trials. That's why you don't see many handlers of fast dogs using them outside the elite ranks. Even among the elite with fast dogs, you're more likely to see contacts with a stop and a quick release used in situations where hundredths of a second make the difference between first and second place.

 

[corbinam]

I'm not saying that running contacts are wrong or should never be trained, just that they require numerous and frequent training sessions, lots of maintenance and you run some risks of questionable calls in trials. That's why you don't see many handlers of fast dogs using them outside the elite ranks. Even among the elite with fast dogs, you're more likely to see contacts with a stop and a quick release used in situations where hundredths of a second make the difference between first and second place.

This is definitely an interesting debate. I know that personally I've been "given" contacts that I know we missed, and vice versa.

I have a friend who is competing at high levels (he has the 8th highest rank gamblers dog, and the only Portugese Water Dog so highly ranked overall) and he is very frustrated because his dogs have a 2o2o. He does release them quickly, but he loses SO much time to the dogs with running contacts that he's considering retraining.

Another thing to consider is that many judges (the more "old school" ones) set their courses purposefully to challenge the foundation of running contacts. They will put a difficult turn, angle, or a strategically placed off course that really challenges running contacts.

 

[Phebe*DD]

My memory sucks. It was an a-frame contact that was called. It's the 4th run on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SlickRockyCalvin#p/u/91/T0br5VlVVpA

Your comment about old-school judges is interesting. Are you saying that judges should change their course designs to better accommodate [more modern] running contacts? It seems to me that if you're going to be successful with running contacts, you also need to have great distance skills on your dog, and those distance skills should include reliable left/right directionals that would allow you to give verbal cues for the next obstacle while the dog is still completing the contact obstacle.

 

[k9kreationz]

Here's something I found interesting, in training, where the contacts are NOT rubber, Koji likes sliding to the bottom, he doesn't mind and comes to a crashing halt (not always, but sometimes). It seems he can keep up his speed AND stop easier. When we work on rubberized contacts, he inches to the bottom, he can't seem to slow down as well, etc.

I'm wondering how rubberized contacts are going to affect those dogs that like to slide (I've seen a lot of fast dogs use the sliding into home plate effect). They now have to learn how to slow down properly (something I can't do myself).

I honestly think that's why I have issues at trials. Koji hasn't learned to slow down and so he just jumps off. I need to work on his contacts on rubber surfaces. I wonder if/when my training facility will rubberize them, I should ask.

Ashley, in USDAA, do they use rubber contacts? Do you know if they're going that direction? I know in AKC it's been club dependent (since it's their equipment) and in NADAC its required.

Either way, good luck to all of you doing running contacts. Ashley, I know your reasoning for Bentley, and I think it's a good decision. He did like to inch his way down the A-frame. I figure, I'll never be at Nationals or anything like that, so 2o2o for Koji it is, since he likes to JUMP! Well, okay, mine is a 4-on for the DW and teeter, and running for the A-frame.