Sable vs. Sable Merle

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Lahree

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I am confused as to what the difference is color (and genetics) between a sable and a sable merle. I have owned two shelties over the past 28 years (one after the other, the first one was 15 and the second was 13) and both were--if my memory serves--sable merle. Even they were 15 years apart in age, they were closely related. They both had very beautiful redish coats with a LOT of dark, dark brown hair in their coats. It seems when I am seeing photos of sable merles now, however, they appear to be very light tannish colored with subtle greyish tone and the photos I see of sables seem to be colored like my past babies. I am confused :confused2: I recently put a deposit down (with a very reputable breeder) on a beautiful sable merle baby girl and at three weeks, her body coat looks very tan and greyish. I am just curious if I have had the idea of the colors of sable vs. sable merles backwards in my head all these years (along with many other subjects, LOL!).:biggrin2::rolleyes2:
 
The merling gene dilutes part of the pigment, which turns the black fur of a tri or bi color to a shade of gray, and it can turn brown eyes into blue eyes (or merled eyes.) Likewise, on a sable, it dilutes the sable, turning it lighter. Some sable merles look like regular sables, as the dilution isn't that apparent. Some look like blue merles, only in shades of brown.

Some sites with pictures:

http://www.snovali.com/other/colors.htm

http://www.dogpatch.org/images/sheltie/bushl.jpg

Google search for sable merle sheltie: http://images.google.com/images?q=s...&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF_en&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi As you can see in the pictures, some of them are visually sable merles, while some aren't as aparent.

Regarding the grayish color: something I've noticed in my red sables (just regular sables that have dark/pure red adult coats), is that as puppies, they has strange, grayish, almost bunnie (wild bunnie!) colored coats.
 
sounds like you had mahogany sable. sable merles tend to be lighter. like narmowen said some sable merles look like sables which can be dangerous if they are bred to other merles. some you can see the merling others look like washed out sables.
my parents bred their great danes :mad: the male is a fawn the female a merle well they had a pup that I guess you would call a fawn merle :confused2: he looks like a fawn but instead of a black mask he has a blue merle mask :lol:
 
OMG! I DID have it backwards all these years! :o I thought I was buying a puppy that would look just like my other two! Uhhhhhhh.........well, lesson learned I guess. It's my fault. What a dim-wit. I am curious about something one of the sites says about sable merles:

Although Sable merles are not frowned upon as such, they should only be used in the breeding programs of experienced breeders with a good understanding of color genetics.

Could someone explain this to me? It sounds like sable merles are a bad thing! :eek2:
 
Sable merles are not bad :smile2:

They can be dangerous in a breeding program only because sometimes its hard to tell if a sable really is merle or not, which could lead to an accidental merle to merle breeding and double merle puppies.
 
one of the reasons people dont like sable merle breedings, besides the reason tehluhlah gave. is when you breed sables to merle you get washed out sables, and muddy blue merles. from what I have read in collie and sheltie books is the only color you should breed a blue too is tri's or bi's, and if your willing to take a chance and know what your line produces another blue merle, but the stress extreme caution in that type of breeding. That is what produces the best blue's.
so in all sable merles are not bad from a pet stand point, but if yor are looking to produce nice coloring in your show dogs that cross should be avoided.
 
tehluhlah said:
Sable merles are not bad :smile2:

They can be dangerous in a breeding program only because sometimes its hard to tell if a sable really is merle or not, which could lead to an accidental merle to merle breeding and double merle puppies.
Click to expand...

They are definitely NOT bad except when you can't tell that they are sable merles.

You can even show them in the confo ring, but like with blue merles, the clearer the color (the more apparent that it's a merle and not a washed out sable), the better the dog is likely to do.

You just have to remember that the merling dilutes the color, which, if it does it in huge patches, will result in a dog that just looks like a really washed out sable, which is fine in blues (the paler and clearer silvers stand out more against the black), but more unwanted in sables.
 
I guess that's why it says on one website, "Although Sable Merles can be shown, their color is heavily penalized and do not generally do well in the show ring."

Good thing mine is destined to be a pet. :)
 
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