Sandstorm barking at children-how to stop it?

[KarenCurtis]

Hi all. Last week I decided to walk Sandstorm in a busier area, so we went down town. We have done this before, when it wasn't so busy with walkers and kids. SS did very well, except when we passed children. He lunges and barks, then backs up. He also did this yesterday at the pet supply store, where he is very well behaved otherwise.
Tell me if this idea is the correct one;
I am thinking that when we go downtown again, I should bring treats. When SS sees a child and starts his barking thing, I should have him sit (if I can ) and treat him. ? Or, should I treat him when he sees the kids before he can react (timing is everything). Sandstorm needs to associate kids with good things.
Sandstorm has never been exposed to kids- the only time was at the beach a year ago when some kids rushed him and chased him around me and I did not intervene in time.
Thanks for all replies, I really want to fix this one. There are kids down our road too- but I can't really ask them to be guinea pigs either. And on our road I don't always have treats with me.

 

[MissSuzie]

Hi all. Last week I decided to walk Sandstorm in a busier area, so we went down town. We have done this before, when it wasn't so busy with walkers and kids. SS did very well, except when we passed children. He lunges and barks, then backs up. He also did this yesterday at the pet supply store, where he is very well behaved otherwise.
Tell me if this idea is the correct one;
I am thinking that when we go downtown again, I should bring treats. When SS sees a child and starts his barking thing, I should have him sit (if I can ) and treat him. ? Or, should I treat him when he sees the kids before he can react (timing is everything). Sandstorm needs to associate kids with good things.
Sandstorm has never been exposed to kids- the only time was at the beach a year ago when some kids rushed him and chased him around me and I did not intervene in time.
Thanks for all replies, I really want to fix this one. There are kids down our road too- but I can't really ask them to be guinea pigs either. And on our road I don't always have treats with me.

Meggie used to do something similar and simply exposing her more to children helped her to get used to them. At a company picnic recently she was sooooo good with the little ones, allowing them to pet her and hug her without any issues. I think it's about socializing them. But I'm no expert and perhaps others will have ideas on how to do that without anyone being scared, SS or the children! I did teach Meggie to sit when children were around and then I stooped down to her level and we greeted the children together.

 

[SheltieChe]

that is where GL comes really handy because by stepping back and turning their head away from distraction you are cutting time they lunge and bark...
For resolving the problem that is what I would do
I would start in the bathroom first- does SS sits or downs on the first command i.e. immediately? or he takes his sweet time thinking about it?
So lets say you want SS to sit or down when kids are around... you get your very fast sit or down in the bathroom, then in living room, then in backyard... then you borrow 1 neighbor's kid, preferably school age with brain and practice first at distance then closer and close..., then you go to area where you might see few not many kids and start with distance again, then close it. Reinforce for what you want.
Going to Petsmart or any place with lots of distractions and trying to train your pup being well behaved is counterproductive and does not set up dog for success. I would start small and grow from there. We have no small kids in the house too so we used Ian Dunbar 50/50/50 rule of meeting man/ women/ kids per week, would go to schools on recess, bus stops and ask kids to feed pups since they were babies. Have to say that Leo got many more hugs and kisses simply because he was very fluffy and tiny... and adorable but big and brawny Che always got overlooked

 

[Jaynie]

I had this problem with my previous set of kerpupnicks, as I and my ex had no children, and lived far away from family or friends with them. There were just absolutely no opportunities to expose them to kids.

Neechee usually got the brunt of the attention because he was so small and dainty. Max, after an initial fear and loathing period (he would take a fear stance and bark wildly), was for some reason fascinated with children (especially teenage girls) and couldn't get enough of them. Neechee would just slightly cringe and look at me as if to say, "do they HAVE to TOUCH me?"

A solution arrived in the guise of my goddaughter, who, when she became a toddler, developed a great love of dogs and who to this day (at age 12) still possesses a charisma that fascinates all animals. (I hope she never loses that - she wants to be a veterinarian, and she'll be a great one with her personality and rapport with animals.)

My guys were around her a lot from the time she was born until she was eight or nine. Due to her influence both my guys became therapy dogs, and we visited children in hospitals and at our local elementary schools.

While I can't recommend commandeering a small child to use as a training tool, it worked in my case. You've got to have a child or children at some point in order to get them used to the situation. Start with one very calm child about 8 or 9 who can understand what it means to not scare the dog.

 

[KarenCurtis]

that is where GL comes really handy because by stepping back and turning their head away from distraction you are cutting time they lunge and bark...
For resolving the problem that is what I would do
I would start in the bathroom first- does SS sits or downs on the first command i.e. immediately? or he takes his sweet time thinking about it?
So lets say you want SS to sit or down when kids are around... you get your very fast sit or down in the bathroom, then in living room, then in backyard... then you borrow 1 neighbor's kid, preferably school age with brain and practice first at distance then closer and close..., then you go to area where you might see few not many kids and start with distance again, then close it. Reinforce for what you want.
Going to Petsmart or any place with lots of distractions and trying to train your pup being well behaved is counterproductive and does not set up dog for success. I would start small and grow from there. We have no small kids in the house too so we used Ian Dunbar 50/50/50 rule of meeting man/ women/ kids per week, would go to schools on recess, bus stops and ask kids to feed pups since they were babies. Have to say that Leo got many more hugs and kisses simply because he was very fluffy and tiny... and adorable but big and brawny Che always got overlooked

Okay- call it over 50 syndrome. Two weeks ago we were all at my mothers, many people, Sandstorm came with us, he was fine. In fact, my 9 year old niece was chasing him around the house!!! I cannot believe I forgot to add that to my original post. Then what is it with Sandstorm barking at the kids on the street? Infront of the pet store? My husband thinks it is because he is on a leash. That may be part of it. Any thoughts? And yes, SS does well with commands like sit, stay, come. He does obey me and walks very well on a leash.

 

[Caro]

Your niece was family, not a stranger, so its entirely different. A lot of dogs not raised around children are fearful of them - kids are small, rambunctious and can be rough. But they can easily differentiate between a kid that is a family member. Also, you will find dogs tend to be most fearful of small children under 8ish.

I am thinking that when we go downtown again, I should bring treats. When SS sees a child and starts his barking thing, I should have him sit (if I can ) and treat him. ? Or, should I treat him when he sees the kids before he can react (timing is everything). Sandstorm needs to associate kids with good things.

Definately take treats with you next time. But I wouldn't worry about getting him to sit. Just walk up and down, up and down. Talk to him, get him to do things for you, have him moving and focusing on you so the children just became something in the background.

If you can work out what his 'critical distance' is with children - how close he has to be before he starts barking that will help. You could go past places on your walks where there are children, like shops or a playground or school and try to slowly decrease the distance before he starts reacting.

 

[SheltieChe]

behavior off leash could be different that on leash as well as being in new habitat- Petsmart vs your mother's home. Training is still about the same- distance, duration and intensity are factors that you could manipulate to your advantage. Kids are no different distraction than lets say furry rats, same principle applies, except that you could actually set it up and possibly have better control over the kid than furry rat
As Caro said- at what distance your pup will sit/ down/ whatever else you want him to do in the presence of a child? Start there and reinforce for behavior you want. I do think such things are better staged at first- invite friends of your niece over and have a lesson with SS.
Carrying treats with you everywhere is good idea too on the off chance you will meet polite kid that will follow your instructions

 

[KarenCurtis]

Your niece was family, not a stranger, so its entirely different. A lot of dogs not raised around children are fearful of them - kids are small, rambunctious and can be rough. But they can easily differentiate between a kid that is a family member. Also, you will find dogs tend to be most fearful of small children under 8ish.

That's right-even though Sandstorm did not know my niece before, he can tell from how we react that she is ours and he is loyal. If my 4 year old nephew was going to be there, I would not have brought SS.

Definately take treats with you next time. But I wouldn't worry about getting him to sit. Just walk up and down, up and down. Talk to him, get him to do things for you, have him moving and focusing on you so the children just became something in the background.

I will try that- very helpful!! Next time I will bring plain Cheerios with me.

If you can work out what his 'critical distance' is with children - how close he has to be before he starts barking that will help. You could go past places on your walks where there are children, like shops or a playground or school and try to slowly decrease the distance before he starts reacting.

The times SS has barked at kids, he has been in very close proximity- the pet store and the side walk. If I can, I lead him farther from the kids- same with trucks on the road.

 

[KarenCurtis]

As Caro said- at what distance your pup will sit/ down/ whatever else you want him to do in the presence of a child? Start there and reinforce for behavior you want. I do think such things are better staged at first- invite friends of your niece over and have a lesson with SS.
Carrying treats with you everywhere is good idea too on the off chance you will meet polite kid that will follow your instructions

This staged thing can be next to impossible though-considering the neighborhood and my niece living long distance. Thanks for your feedback, I'll let you know how it goes next week!