So using the poodle as an example....If a poodle is a poodle regardless of size, then its still a poodle. What I'm looking for is definitive differences between Shelties and Collies, regardless of size.
What you're talking about is "breed type": the qualities that make a Sheltie different from a "miniature Collie" or a Kuvasz different from a Great Pyrenees. They set the breed apart from any other breed.
On the other side of the fence, dogs of two different varieties of one breed (Rough and Smooth collies, Toy, Mini, Standard Poodles, etc., etc.) should be identical in type except for a variety-defining characteristic (coat, size).
A Toy Poodle should look like a Standard in every way except size - ideally, it looks like a Standard that has been shrunk down. A Smooth Collie should be identical to the Rough, except for coat. And on and on and on.
Shelties and Collies are two different breeds, not two varieties of one breed. The ideal Sheltie would never be mistaken for a small Collie, nor would the ideal Collie be mistaken for a large Sheltie. They are and should be two distinct breeds,
each with distinct breed type.
That is why the term "miniature Collie" is inaccurate. A "miniature Collie" would have Collie breed type and be fourteen inches tall. A Shetland Sheepdog has Sheltie breed type.
This is not to say that there are no common virtues between the two breeds: for example, we look for lean, smooth heads with parallel planes and straight edges, just as Collie people do. But the ideal Sheltie head is different; it has a definite stop, the eyes are set differently, the balance is a bit different. It's not a huge difference, but it does set this breed apart from that one.
Bodies and substance are different, too. The balance is slightly different. Collies tend to be longer in body, while Shelties are shorter-backed. Again, if you took a black outline of a Sheltie and blew it up to Collie size, it would still look like a Sheltie.
Your pet Sheltie may look like a perfect miniature Collie (or like a large Pomeranian or like a Collie-colored coyote) but if he does, he lacks breed type. The ideal Sheltie looks like nothing other than what he is.
Barb, I truly do not know how to answer your question any more thoroughly. The difference between the breeds boils down to breed type - because breed type is defined by the difference between the two breeds. The type-defining characteristics in this breed are head, balance, and proportion - and that is what makes them different from Collies, miniature or otherwise.
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