Socialisation dilemma

[Chinchi]

I don't know what they taught you in your dog socialization classes, but when I brought Bacca to puppy school, it was very much all about how to interact with other dogs, cats, interesting smells, distractions, etc.

Your trainer may be correct that the particular school you Darla too did not do the basics. If its all play, then she is definitely correct.

The socialisation group is at the vets and yes, it's all about play, no training. I noticed tonight that all the pups charge around playing and paying no attention whatsoever to the owners, even when called. Even Darla tonight ignored us twice when we called her.

Oh dear, I have taught her dogs = free for all play, haven't I?!

 

[Psalms]

I too am afraid of dog parks. I take Sammy to a school nearby that has a fenced playground where people in the neighborhood sometimes let their dogs off leash after school hours. What I have done is to bring Sammy, our 6 month-old pup, to the park on leash. If I see a dog that appears friendly and well-behaved I ask the owner if it would be all right for our dogs to meet. Sammy has made several doggy friends this way. We actually have a standing meet-up with a little puggle every day between 3 and 4 o'clock. Her owner is so happy for her little dog to have a friend, and they get along great.

Maybe one of your neighbors has a friendly dog that you could arrange a play date with. Ha ha! And we thought we were done with child rearing! Janet

 

[OntarioSheltie]

I have a problem that I'm not entirely sure of how to resolve. I've been doing alot of reading, each with conflicting theories so I thought I would present it to the sheltie experts.

Darla's obedience trainer said that I should stop taking her to puppy socialisation classes as that has taught her to 'think' that every dog she sees is a potential playmate. Now, I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong in that, I much prefer her liking dogs and wanting to play with them than being fearful or nasty to them. The trainer said it because she sees how doggy focussed Darla is, to the point of obsession, she will whine and cry if she cannot go and say hello (she is almost a year old).

She also doesn't have very good doggy communication skills. She will barge up face on to say hello which doesn't always provoke a calm response. For example, today she greeted another dog, a terrier (terror I should say ;p) face on and the terrier objected. She barked and barked in Darla's face and Darla rolled onto her back very submissively. No harm was done, but I could tell Darla was a little confused, she didn't understand why the terrier was so upset that her space had been invaded.

If your pup is very dog focused and has trouble controlling herself in the presence of other dogs then yes, I'd stop the puppy classes. She is not going to learn how to socialize properly with other puppies who are also out of control and don't understand what is right/wrong.

Its important to remember that you're teaching your dog to socialize even when you're at obedience class. By having her there and teaching her to focus on you instead of the other dogs, you're teaching her how to behave when other dogs are around. A well socialized dog understands that he/she does not have to approach and play with every dog they see. It teaches them that not only is there an appropriate time/place for play, but also that not every dog wants to interact.

I'd personally also avoid dog parks, especially at this time in your pups life, my experience has been that they can be too unpredictable. You do not want to accidentally put your pup in a bad situation. Bad experiences when they're young can stay with them for the rest of their lives. Instead, arrange play dates with dogs you know are well behaved, mellow and good with other dogs.

 

[Chinchi]

If your pup is very dog focused and has trouble controlling herself in the presence of other dogs then yes, I'd stop the puppy classes. She is not going to learn how to socialize properly with other puppies who are also out of control and don't understand what is right/wrong.

I think you are right. I don't think the puppy sessions are really doing anything for her, apart from letting her go bonkers. She now needs to learn how to conduct herself around older dogs.

Its important to remember that you're teaching your dog to socialize even when you're at obedience class. By having her there and teaching her to focus on you instead of the other dogs, you're teaching her how to behave when other dogs are around. A well socialized dog understands that he/she does not have to approach and play with every dog they see. It teaches them that not only is there an appropriate time/place for play, but also that not every dog wants to interact.

Again, I have to agree. I was walking Darla today around the streets and when she spots another dog she thinks it's playtime, regardless of the traffic, the other dog ignoring her and being leashed etc.

I'd personally also avoid dog parks, especially at this time in your pups life, my experience has been that they can be too unpredictable. You do not want to accidentally put your pup in a bad situation.

We have regular parks here, not designated 'dog parks' as such, but one in particular is always busy with off leash dogs. If Darla was off leash she would run up to EVERYONE, dog, person, whoever! If we walk along leashed, other dogs will charge up to her and she goes potty as she is restricted. I avoid it at all costs and walk where it is quiet in the fields.

I think my plan of action will be to enrol her in a heel work obedience class so she can practice with other dogs around in a controlled environment and take out chicken pieces on our walks and try and get her focussed on me before she goes over threshold. Oh and to not give her the opportunity to run over to other dogs without permission, but generally she's very good if I can spot them in time! I think a long line will be useful for the times when I am caught by surprise.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

Impulse control, young Lady! lol
She sounds like a hoot, by the way... but a proper nightmare for dogs like Toffee He'd snap at her in a New York minute and it would be appropriate behaviour on his part, it's funny I have had a couple of people actually thank me (mortified as I was, because I knew their dog wanted to be friendly and play, but sheeesh don't run into my dogs face, lol) but they said thanks so much as they needed a dog to tell their dog off. Toffee doesn't fight, unless the other dog just doesn't leave his space, he snaps and growls until they do. As soon as he has his 'purple bubble' back in place it's good again, lol!

So what she needs is impulse control, focus on me, play with me, get treats from me, and if you're good you get to say hello to that other dog ya dying to meet. You would set her up just like you would a fearful dog, how far does she have to be before loosing her cool at the excitement to meet another dog? Go find that threshold, stay there and feed her treats and play with her to get her attending to you, then if she does that you can go a little closer. Then if she was good, you can release her to say HIIIIII to the other dog (if it's a friendly, calm dog)

 

[Jess041]

I have to agree with most of the previous posters.

When I took Missy to puppy class, they had a "puppy socialization" 30 mintues beforehand that the trainer was present for. It was basically a free for all, but if one of the puppies was playing too rough, they would pull it away and see what the other dog did. It was especially eye opening for me, because Missy was a lot smaller than most of the pups, and the trainer could see how worried I was about her getting tackled. She had the rough puppy owner hold onto the puppy and sure enough, Missy would go back over to the puppy ready to keep playing. Then we would have an hour of training which would be intervals of approx. 10 minutes training, 5 minutes play.

I agree that maybe part of the problem with just puppy socialization is Darla isn't learning manners from big dogs, she's just playing with puppies, who don't really have manners. Socialization with older dogs would probably help. Of course, my dog is still pretty annoying to other dogs because there are certain dogs she just LOVES and likes to lick their faces, which I read was a pretty juvenile thing to do. She also thinks that she needs to play with every dog too, unless they're too big. But I've been trying to work with her on impulse control.

 

[Chinchi]

Impulse control, young Lady! lol
She sounds like a hoot, by the way... but a proper nightmare for dogs like Toffee He'd snap at her in a New York minute and it would be appropriate behaviour on his part, it's funny I have had a couple of people actually thank me (mortified as I was, because I knew their dog wanted to be friendly and play, but sheeesh don't run into my dogs face, lol) but they said thanks so much as they needed a dog to tell their dog off.

Shame you are so far away, I would love to have borrowed you and Toffee as that's exactly what Darla needs!

 

[AusnAsh]

Shame you are so far away, I would love to have borrowed you and Toffee as that's exactly what Darla needs!

Haha yeah no kidding. Don't worry though. There are plenty of dogs who won't be as happy to see her. That's why it's important for her to meet older dogs. Asher would snap at her too unfortunately

 

[Chinchi]

Ok, today we got to work on some impulse control in the house. She has actually always been very good at this in the house as there are few distractions, but I tried the food hidden in the hand trick and she got that within seconds. However, we have always taught her to wait and look at us before eating her dinner.

I then moved onto something a little harder for her. We were playing fetch and at one point during the game when she was all revved up I told her to sit and stay. I threw the ball, she got up and started to chase but stopped when I said 'uh uh'. We tried a few more times and I think it was about the fourth time that she got it. I then hid the trick within the game, again getting her all excited and revved before telling her to sit and stay, and she did it! Ok, this is inside the house with no distractions, but i think it provides a good grounding on which to build on.

She loves my bunny so for the next step on the distraction scale I will put the bun in a pen on the grass in the garden and have Darla walk on the lead focussing on me and not on my bun. Then work towards off lead, sit, stay etc with bun still in the pen.

Next step perhaps have bunny running loose round the garden (using her to mimic the dogs in the park) and again work on Darla focussing on me whilst on the leash, progressing to off leash if she is successful.

Then when I feel she has mastered all these we can move onto training in public with a few more distractions, people, dogs etc.

What do you all think?

 

[bwibwigouza]

Moving up on the amount of distraction slowly is good. But be prepared to go back where she is have "success" if she becomes frustrated.
I find obedience classes a little hard for puppies to learn good behaviour unless all other puppies there are little angels . We were very fortunate to be able to adopt an adult GSD who is very much a no-nonsense dog and has very low tolerance of other dogs. Izabelle immediately taught Mozart to keep his distance and approach with care...but I didn't want him to develop a fear for all other dogs either so I got him enrolled in agility class which is grouped by skill level and not age so that can give your puppy exposure to adult dog of different age and size.