Still mad - venting

Greenepony said:
...How are they supposed to know their running style is what is upsetting her rather than just their presence? As a runner, I see some dogs that react to anything; unless I know the dog personally I don't know if they're upset that I'm wearing a certain color/piece of clothing or somehow my form bothers them.
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I think that Greenpony makes a VERY valid point here. How can we expect runners and bikers (who may not even personally own dogs or ANY pets) to know what type of behavior sets our dogs off? REMEMBER, this thread was started because OTHER DOG OWNERS (who presumably SHOULD know better) are engaging in behavior detrimental to our dogs. THEY should know better (runners, walkers and bikers) - - maybe/maybe not.

One other thing about this particular thread that I find interesting is how selective we are (I said WE, not just THIS one or THAT one), about various transgressions and/or faux pas committed out in the "walking our dogs" world. Several of the comments offered detail encounters in "Off Leash" areas where BOTH the offenders and the offended are OFF LEASH! I AGREE with the posters that the thoughtless behavior of many owners is over the top. But, EVERYONE should follow the rules, not just those who do stuff WE don't like. (Obviously, "No leash required areas" change the discussion). If a leash is required by law, it is required for all. There is no dispensation for well trained dogs, while less well trained dogs are required to be restrained. It reminds me of an on going discussion from a Comparative Religion class I had as a 1st year undergraduate. The discussion was about "Which sins are the worst sins?" My belief (then and now) was "a sin is a sin". We can't pick and choose which rules apply to us and which do not.
 
How are they supposed to know their running style is what is upsetting her rather than just their presence? As a runner, I see some dogs that react to anything; unless I know the dog personally I don't know if they're upset that I'm wearing a certain color/piece of clothing or somehow my form bothers them.[/QUOTE]

If you have made an EFFORT to MOVE your dog off a road...and you can see that the dog is REACTING to you for whatever reason, as a runner, biker, stroller, walker, etc. and the owner is putting them in a sit/stay and blocking them from you as a precaution and training maneuver. Why in heaven's name would you RUN closer to them-not logical when you have the whole OPEN side of the road????? Common sense says that a distance should be maintained, when I am walking by myself...I give others plenty of room on a trail, especially those with strollers or walking dogs. I move over to the other side as a courtesy gesture-and it takes absolute no effort on my part. I don't crowd them or walk right up on them, and if I cause any type of reaction, I put further distance there, because it is just helping them out, and I usually get a pleasant "thank you, response". I am specifically talking about runners deliberately crossing to our side of the road, close to the edge on our side even though we are off the road.
 
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"Other owners who can not control their dogs ALWAY seem to cross to the other side of the sidewalk... their dogs are barking and acting up...

My boys just look at them and keep walking at a heel position...." (quote of previous posting)

That is my BEEF as well, WHY do they cross over while their dogs are not being controlled WHERE they are, and invade your space. My girls look up at me, like what are they doing, we sat, we are waiting, WHY are they coming TOWARDS us like that. I mean c'mon now...
 
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To clarify the park is an on leash area except where designated otherwise. That said almost no-one who walks at this end uses a leash and they could be excused for not doing so, as the access is off a private walkway that is supposed to be exclusively for residents of our subdivision, other than very small Park boundary signs every kilometer or so, there are absolutely no signs that specify dogs must be leashed. Unless people are familiar with park rules in general they would have no way of knowing the leash rules. Technically speaking we are supposed to drive 5 minutes to main gates to enter the park and leave our pass on the windshield - but we buy an annual pass and access it from this end by walking in. It is only ever patrolled in the peak season and the locals have been doing this for years ( most don't even bother buying the pass $150 pass).

When this happened Hanna was well under my control - sitting at my side off the pathway and with my hand firmly on her collar. She had been off leash in the moments before, but she came when called and the other dog did not spot her until after I had her in a sit. Nothing would have changed had she been on leash as I still would have required her to sit by my side while we determined if the people coming wanted to interact or not. From the moment he spotted her - his owners had no control whatsoever and did not even make any attempts at restraining their dog, and that is what really made me angry. I do believe you have extra responsibility if you own an animal that is so big it can do damage even unintentionally while trying to be friendly. I'm pretty sure this was not an agressive dog, but 70 pounds of exuberance jumping on a 17 pound sheltie or small child can do some serious harm. The owners should take responsibility for that.
 
To be clear, my point of view is this: I don't think that ANY of the comments in THIS particular thread would have come out differently had the offended dogs been on leash in areas that require such actions (in fact, some of the situations could have been worse since the set upon dog would be at a disadvantage) . Nor does following the rules change (or lessen) the impact of oafish behavior on the part of owners who don't have control of their companions. My point is one of the broader issue.

It is my belief that there are so many people who can't/don't/won't control their dogs because of a general attitude that the only rules that apply to THEM are the ones that THEY themselves feel are important and/or necessary. They don't control their dogs because "My dog is only trying to be friendly"; they don't follow vaccination protocols because "My dog is healthy", and on and on and on.

I see the mental mechanics of owners who skirt simple things like leash laws as simply the other side of the same coin. I say that, EVEN in situations where I don't really see a reason to be leashed in a particular situation. Its MY responsibility to FIND OUT what the rules are for the areas I take my dog. Signs or not - and whether or not I am supposed to have a permit or pass. (Obviously all of this means that I don't agree that people should be "excused" for breaking even those laws I find inane). In the interest of full disclosure, I am NOT saying that I never break the rules - only that when I do, I'm in league with the same oafs and idiots the I/we rail against here.
 
bottom line

Leash laws were created so everyone could be safe and enjoy public areas, equally, without fear of being attacked by a dog not able to be controlled.

We all want safety for our fur babies. When our dogs are attacked, threatened, or ponced on, by "friendly" dogs it causes damage that could easily be avoided. Less and less common sense, more and more selfish behavior in our world.
 
Leash laws not only protect other animals, they also protect YOUR animal (generic you, not aimed at anyone on this thread). All dogs have the capability to do something unpredictable for whatever reason, maybe they get spooked, maybe they see something they need to chase, maybe a sudden thought comes into their canine minds, whatever. All dogs can suddenly take off and run across or into a road -- unpredictably, even if they never, ever have before; even if they've always always listened and behaved absolutely perfectly every micro-second of their lives.
 
tesslynn said:
If you have made an EFFORT to MOVE your dog off a road...and you can see that the dog is REACTING to you for whatever reason, as a runner, biker, stroller, walker, etc. and the owner is putting them in a sit/stay and blocking them from you as a precaution and training maneuver. Why in heaven's name would you RUN closer to them-not logical when you have the whole OPEN side of the road????? Common sense says that a distance should be maintained, when I am walking by myself...I give others plenty of room on a trail, especially those with strollers or walking dogs. I move over to the other side as a courtesy gesture-and it takes absolute no effort on my part. I don't crowd them or walk right up on them, and if I cause any type of reaction, I put further distance there, because it is just helping them out, and I usually get a pleasant "thank you, response". I am specifically talking about runners deliberately crossing to our side of the road, close to the edge on our side even though we are off the road.
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Well yeah, but you seemed to imply earlier that the runners were purposefully running with a higher stride to set off your dog, that they should know better.

But I think everyone should share the road/path and follow the respective rules (which do change by state/locality/HOA) and common courtesy goes with that. All I can do is provide a good example and report dangerous behavior as necessary.
 
One thing to consider with runners...if you're on a dirt path, there could be several reasons to move over closer to you at that particular time. Maybe the track is more torn up, maybe the one side looks muddy... Especially when you're running with high lifted legs, it's very easy to step wrong and hurt something. They might take your moving off to the side as an actual indication of that fact.

Also, if you've been running for a while, you're not always focusing on whats around you. I know myself, ten minutes in, every bit of attention was on my internal voice chanting, "this sucks, this sucks, ugh this is the worst"

Not that I don't understand your frustration, because I do, Honey's reactive to cars and although we've done a decent job managing it, when someone drives fast past her every bit of our training goes out the window for a day or so. Most of our neighbors are great about this, they've noticed and go extra slow past her, or even pause and wait for us to pass, but there are some persistent speeders, who do not care one whit that kids, dogs and people share the side street with them.
 
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