The nonsense of NO

That's interesting, but, I disagree that dogs don't understand the meaning of words. Beau goes up on the step on of our favorite dog store. When they are closed, that's all I tell him. He will walk on by. Begrudgingly, of course like"how dare they be closed Momma" but, he does it.
 
There are two words that my dogs learn right from the get go. One is NO and the other is CUT. Both mean "stop what you are doing immediately". They understand both words. Even Tinsel now knows what NO means. It is seldom used here but when it is, he stops and looks at me. I probably always give a second command such as LEAVE IT or DOWN but the initial NO gets the response I want it to. STOP IMMEDIATELY.
CUT is usually used if there is a noise made by the dog that is inappropriate. For instance, Tinsel has started adding a bark type noise to his spinning while I prepare his dinner. I don't want this behaviour to escalate so I said CUT yesterday and today and he stopped both times and looked at me. He immediately got told that was good and he went back to his spinning but without the vocalization. The harsh sound of the word CUT seems to get the attention of most dogs. Honestly the noise he makes is a noise that most other dogs would react to. Ours did for the first couple of times and then realized that that is Tin's noise but I often have other dogs here. It's sounds a little like a seal with a cold.
What drives me nuts is people without a clear understanding of what they want from a dog so they allow things one day and not the next or they allow it as a baby puppy and then hate it as the dog grows. When I say no I mean it. I straighten my body automatically and say no firmly - they learn pretty quick. I realize that the positive trainers out there will not agree but it works for me and I don't have snivelling dogs living here. All are free to be the characters they were born to be within a structured environment.
 
I do agree that "no" does work....at the very least get their split second attention and drop whatever bad stuff they've been engaged in...especially if it is said in a sharp tone. This however, only works on Mozart if my brother or I were the ones yelling the "no". Anybody else...he'd just go on with whatever he was doing. I do also agree that the "no" must be followed by a command the dog can follow through and be distracted from whatever bad thing he/she was doing.
 
mmm, as a concept dogs are not capable grasping "Don't do it". It is an abstract concept.
Just like you can not explain to 2 year old why grandma went to heaven
and is not coming back....
Humans grow up and eventually are capable of abstract thinking. Dogs never do. They do not understand past, present or future/ abstract concept again/- world is not build for them in same way.
Dogs live in the DO land. Sit, Down, Stand, Touch etc...
 
I try not to yell no because it is not a command. If I don't want Sandstorm to do something like eat paper on the road I say leave it, but I think if I used no for leave it it would also work if SS knew I meant for him to leave it?
 
Here is the thing about No. It can be used as a non reward marker(NRM) or an aversive depending on how it is applied(ie tone and situation). Both uses act to decrease a behavior(positive punishment) but in both cases it creates a behavioral void. ie ok I am not to do that but what am I to do?

To be of any use in training, the word No must be followed by another action. Either praise when the behavior is stopped thus marking the stopping of the behavior as the correct choice(but again leaving the dog in limbo as to what to do next) or another command that is then rewarded.

The word NO is a tool just like anything else in dog training and can be used properly or misused but it is not in itself evil or improper training. Some will argue it is not needed because one can just issue another command but there are some situations that causing a momentary stoppage of behavior can be useful.

I myself try to not use it but I do use NRM in advanced training in the context of you are not on the right path try something else.
 
I guess I just assume that whatever is asked for is praised for. I was just making Tin's dinner and he started to let out a "bark". I pointed my finger at him and said CUT, so he didn't even get the noise completely out before I interupted him and then told him he was good because he stopped immediately. He's getting the message fast without me yelling or getting pushy. The next thing he will learn is to sit and wait for his meal. I wouldn't care about the spinning - I actually think it's cute - but he keeps knocking his water bowl over. Oh well, there's always one corner of the kitchen floor that is clean:razz:
 
I don't agree. There is research that shows dogs understand 'no' after the age of either 3 or 6mths. I'd have to dig for the research but I know at the club we teach people in puppy classes not to use the term 'no' for pups.

I can't see why dogs would not be able to grasp the term. When you see dogs interact they will quite readily tell another dog 'no' without then following it up by showing them a different behaviour.

I also don't agree that dog's can't string a couple of words together like "no jumping". I can say to Tully "get the ball to Jan" and she will find the ball and take it to Jan (or squeaky or bone or whatever I ask). If I say "where's the ball to Jan" she will show Jan the ball but won't take it up to her. The syntax of the sentence doesn't matter, what does matter is she knows "get the" or "where's the" she knows object names and she knows the names of people we are with frequently. So when she hears "get the ball to Jan" she strings the commands together and understands I want her to take the ball to Jan. If I say "get the squeaky on the bed" she will put the squeaky toy on the bed. So saying "no jumping" is no different - it's just stringing two commands together and most smart/trained dogs will understand "no' means don't do a behaviour and that behaviour is "jumping".
 
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