Geneva Convention for dogs?? I agree but it would be for humane treatment. Those collars are tools just as a hammer is a tool. Used properly a hammer can build some beautiful furniture or a wonderful house. Used incorrectly it can destroy anything! It's the same with these tools. They shouldn't be used by people who are uneducated as to their proper use.
Navigation
Install the app
How to install the app on iOS
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
More options
Style variation
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
There Ought to Be a Law
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
I have a friend that boards her horses at this farm and we go riding together often. The owners of the farm have a shepherd-hound mix. They tie the dog out WITH A PRONG COLLAR! They have a nylon collar on the dog, too, but choose the prong collar as his tie out. Now, over the past month or so I have been switching the leash over to the nylon collar, (which they then removed when they discovered what I'd done). Then I started clipping the leash to both "rings" of the prong collar so it couldn't tighten. I know it's wrong to mess with another person's dog but this poor dog! They also keep him in a stall in the back end of the stable in pitch black all day. His nails are so long they are twisted from putting his 60 lbs on them. So, I clipped his nails for him, gave him a good brushing, and took the prong collar off him when he was in the stall. But to my dismay, he was tied out yesterday with it on, and all I could do was clip the leash to the extra ring so it couldn't tighten. I want to talk to these people but they are never around when I'm there. I was thinking of buying them a martingale collar, but I don't know. I also took 4 hours scrubbing out the 100 gallon water tubs for the horses full of "split pea soup" for water. DISGUSTING! What would you guys do in the prong collar situation? I feel like I've been to bold already by "messing with their dog" every time I go up there. But I'm so scared he's going to get punctured from lunging at something!
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
Geneva Convention for dogs?? I agree but it would be for humane treatment. Those collars are tools just as a hammer is a tool. Used properly a hammer can build some beautiful furniture or a wonderful house. Used incorrectly it can destroy anything! It's the same with these tools. They shouldn't be used by people who are uneducated as to their proper use.
I respectfully disagree, it's an outdated tool that should have have no more use in today's dog training. We know more about conditioning and how dogs learn, these collars are no longer needed! Whether it is fitted right or not, it is meant to cause pain, period.
"Overall the researchers concluded that even when compared to working dogs trained using choke chain and pinch collar corrections, dogs trained with electronic shock collars showed more fear and anxiety behaviors than those trained by other traditional police dog and watchdog methods."
Dr Yin's page: http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/are-electronic-shock-collars-painful-or-just-annoying-to-dogs-a-new-study-r
and Susan Garrett who asks since we are all dog lovers so why do we prefer something that causes the dog anxiety or pain? http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2010/04/there-is-a-better-way-find-it/
Last edited:
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
What would you guys do in the prong collar situation? I feel like I've been to bold already by "messing with their dog" every time I go up there. But I'm so scared he's going to get punctured from lunging at something!
I actually don't see this as a prong collar situation, it's a welfare situation.
Realistically, if the dog is a lunger, the flat collar will do more damage than the prong. There have been no documented cases (last time I looked) of a dog actually being punctured by a prong. There just isn't enough pressure at any one point to do damage. He can very easily do damage hitting the end of a flat collar, though. That even pressure is bad news, whether it's a nylon buckle, rolled leather, or chain.
Lets add the Gentle Leader or Head Collar to list of horrible devices if we're going this route.
Sheesh. Collars are not the problem, IMHO. It is all about the people using them. Most don't take time to either learn about them or correctly use the, regardless of the collar!
People on Buckle tend to not train their dogs (not talking about informed people on the forum). So the dog hacks and pulls and is a general PITA.
People on Harnesses tend to not take the time to train and the dog pulls hem everywhere, another PITA with possible sores under the arms from wear.
People on Chokes tend to yank their dog around... again no training really.
People on Gentle Leaders tend to pull their dogs around (causing spine and neck damage), again no training.
People on Prongs tend to get one fitted incorrectly or leave them tied out! Again no training.
People with Ecollars tend to not use it correctly and can terrify the dog.
It really doesn't matter the tool. It is the person using it and their understand of it. When used properly, every one of these devices has a proper place in some kind of training. Just maybe not with that particular dog/situation.
Life is not all Rainbows and Cookies. Corrections should be used (IMO) when needed & taught. But it isn't the devices job to correct, it is the persons job to know when and how and what to use.
Hate the cartoon by the way.... Prong collars DO NOT have sharp pointy prongs (would've been ok with the cartoon if they hadn't done that).
Sheesh. Collars are not the problem, IMHO. It is all about the people using them. Most don't take time to either learn about them or correctly use the, regardless of the collar!
People on Buckle tend to not train their dogs (not talking about informed people on the forum). So the dog hacks and pulls and is a general PITA.
People on Harnesses tend to not take the time to train and the dog pulls hem everywhere, another PITA with possible sores under the arms from wear.
People on Chokes tend to yank their dog around... again no training really.
People on Gentle Leaders tend to pull their dogs around (causing spine and neck damage), again no training.
People on Prongs tend to get one fitted incorrectly or leave them tied out! Again no training.
People with Ecollars tend to not use it correctly and can terrify the dog.
It really doesn't matter the tool. It is the person using it and their understand of it. When used properly, every one of these devices has a proper place in some kind of training. Just maybe not with that particular dog/situation.
Life is not all Rainbows and Cookies. Corrections should be used (IMO) when needed & taught. But it isn't the devices job to correct, it is the persons job to know when and how and what to use.
Hate the cartoon by the way.... Prong collars DO NOT have sharp pointy prongs (would've been ok with the cartoon if they hadn't done that).
Like all tools education is the key! If not used right even a flat collar can be harmfull. Have I used a prong collar... yes I have when I was raising guide dogs we had a poodle and a doberman that needed it. There was no way my son who was 9 at the time was going to be able to handle a dog that weighed almost the same as he did! We made sure it was fitted properly and it was used for training only. After a couple of months he could walk and train her with just a regular training collar, which is what the guide dogs wear. I also reccomended the prong to someone who has one of my puppies. Why? Because the 8 month old puppy is a serious car chaser!! She has tried several different trainers and behaviourists and nothing has helped, and yes she tried positive only training first. It is getting to the point where she cant take him out to potty or walk with out him lunging at cars, God forbid he ever gets loose! I would rather them use that than hear he was hit by a car.
I'm also an advocate for harnesses.....despite all of the statements about the safety of martingale collars, my Sasha can get out of buckle collars, martingales, and 75% of harnesses too! It took us a LONG time to find a harness that she cannot twist out of. 95% of the time she is a perfect little lady angel on a leash regardless of the collar type. However, if she gets spooked she does a backup-drop-roll-dart away and is OUT of ANY collar we have tried and a good number of the harnesses too. I don't want her loose or lost. We use a harness when out in public. The buckle collar is for our own backyard OR for training in an enclosed area.
Actually I've seen several cases where the prongs became embedded or punctured the skin. 2 on Animal Planet, and one in the news. Prong collars are a training tool. Not for tie-outs and there are warnings in bold print on the cards they come with. They are designed to pinch the skin. The dog's tie out chain is heavy enough to make it so he's being pinched all the time-on the back of the neck...it isn't even on his neck right. Prong collars being used incorrectly have been known to lead to aggression issues due to the frustration of being pinched too often or constantly. I would like to call the ASPCA on them but since the dog hasn't been injured yet, there's nothing they could do. I do want to talk to them...but I can never get ahold of them. Even tried calling them today to let them know I almost hit one of their calves in the road, and they had a horse loose in the road. No answer, no call back. And they had this poor dog in a pitch black horse stall today. He was just howling and howling for someone to let him out. I took the prong collar off him, it's too tight on him as it is. Unbelieveable. Why have pets? Then I disovered 2 rabbits in a cage in another stall in the back of the barn. No food No water. I gave them water and they were still drinking when I left the barn. I also gave them some carrots I brought. *sigh* Why do people get pets if they are going to leave them in pitch darkness all day long? What a miserable existance! Sorry this is way off topic but I'm just very frustrated with these individuals. Especially the dog situation. A prong collar is a training tool, not for tieing a dog out. At least a nylon collar has support-that's why dogs can pull so hard with them and not with a prong collar.
Hate the cartoon by the way.... Prong collars DO NOT have sharp pointy prongs (would've been ok with the cartoon if they hadn't done that).
Actually there are some websites (professionals) that have instructions on how to sharpen the prongs. I couldn't believe it when I saw it, but yes, there are some people that sharpen them. Ouch!
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
Actually I've seen several cases where the prongs became embedded or punctured the skin. 2 on Animal Planet, and one in the news. Prong collars are a training tool. Not for tie-outs and there are warnings in bold print on the cards they come with. They are designed to pinch the skin. The dog's tie out chain is heavy enough to make it so he's being pinched all the time-on the back of the neck...it isn't even on his neck right. Prong collars being used incorrectly have been known to lead to aggression issues due to the frustration of being pinched too often or constantly. I would like to call the ASPCA on them but since the dog hasn't been injured yet, there's nothing they could do. I do want to talk to them...but I can never get ahold of them. Even tried calling them today to let them know I almost hit one of their calves in the road, and they had a horse loose in the road. No answer, no call back. And they had this poor dog in a pitch black horse stall today. He was just howling and howling for someone to let him out. I took the prong collar off him, it's too tight on him as it is. Unbelieveable. Why have pets? Then I disovered 2 rabbits in a cage in another stall in the back of the barn. No food No water. I gave them water and they were still drinking when I left the barn. I also gave them some carrots I brought. *sigh* Why do people get pets if they are going to leave them in pitch darkness all day long? What a miserable existance! Sorry this is way off topic but I'm just very frustrated with these individuals. Especially the dog situation. A prong collar is a training tool, not for tieing a dog out. At least a nylon collar has support-that's why dogs can pull so hard with them and not with a prong collar.
What a terrible situation!
Good for you for going so far in trying to help these animals!!!
I just wanted to add that even properly used prong and choke collars can lead to aggression issues for many dogs. For example think of a dog that growls or barks (at other dogs, or people or whatever) because he is afraid. If he is choked or shocked when this happens, he will continue to be afraid of the thing that makes him scared BUT also VERY afraid to show signals. Hence more sudden lunging... If a dog is scared, sure this method may stop the animal from showing outward signs of discomfort, but the anxiety that caused him to lunge has not been addressed!
This dog will reach a point that the dog can't help it, it will lead to a bite eventually. It seems like they are attacking out of nowhere, but their signals were suppressed by the handler using pain to control a dog.
So I say ban the bloody things, they are pain inducing and dog lovers shouldn't want to train with pain and these outdated training methods. These collars are doing more harm than good. Humans will be humans and will use them wrong to top it all off which is all you all agreed on a bad thing!
Last edited: