Thoughts On Pulling A Dog

HopeShelties

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What are your thoughts on pulling a dog?
Prior to last month, I never thought I would need to pull one of mine. However, I have a dog who has become so confident, independent, cocky, and wild that at the NADAC trial a month ago, I found myself collecting my dog, thanking the judge, and leaving the ring. Since returning from our break, she has started choosing to disregard very clear cues and refuses to check in. At the NADAC trial, she got a verbal to check in two jumps back from the discrimination, verbal and no motion at the jump one jump back, me still standing, waiting for the check in, and another verbal, and she still chose to go on, and take the tunnel as she pleased (was supposed to be dogwalk, but never bothered to get that information from me). I picked her up at the end of the tunnel, and left the ring. Fast forward to the week following at class. We couldn't make her repeat the mistake. She was all about listening at that point.
Prior to that, since March each run has been less than impressive, with her either ignoring me, or she misses the weaves because collecting takes time out from flying, barks me down, and then the run deteriorates to crap (you can't get her back once the bark down happens).
So, it happened this past weekend. Barked me down at the weaves, after already choosing to ignore all cues to collect on a few other obstacles (she got pulled at obstacle #7). So, I picked her up and left. It is not helping the dog to allow her to continue on with the course when that happens. People outside the ring took it badly. I am apparently mean for pulling my dog off course. Had it been a Border Collie, not a word would've been said, but a sheltie? Yeah, I'm a horrible person because my naughty dog wasn't allowed to continue acting bad in the ring. She is not a soft sheltie. I wouldn't DARE do it with any of my others... yet Kai? What other option was there at that point when the dog wasn't paying a bit of attention, and getting out of control?
Fast forward to the next day. The dog was perfect. Couldn't have asked for better runs. She was listening, collecting to hit the weave poles, doing everything I asked her. She qualified for the first time since coming back, and even earned a title. This is the first time she has been truly focused on responding to me since returning in March. So, apparently being pulled from the course got the message across. It seems every once in a while she is just going to have to be pulled from the course. It really isn't something I want to do, but it seems as if it is the only thing that works to get through to her that her out of control behavior, and unwillingness to listen are unacceptable, and the fun will end when she chooses to do those things. She is not a dog that treats or toys matter to. She doesn't care about praise. It is all about the agility. Running is its' own reward.
Believe me when I say this dog is very well trained. It isn't a lack of information coming from me, or the dog just not understanding the cues she is given. She KNOWS them.
 
I HAVE to pull my dog when he starts to disregard my commands. His is the contacts. He does them perfectly in practice and then in the ring he knows that I can't grab his butt and put him back on so he tends to fly off in anticipation of the next obstacle. He loves agility so much that his run is most definitely his reward and the ONLY way to get him to listen is to pull him from the ring. We had to do it this past weekend. His standard run he blew off the A frame contact and I didn't pull him. Sure enough the next run he blew the A frame again but even worse! It doesn't have to be a dramatic event. Just a simple "Uh oh", pick him up, walk him off and put him in his cage and walk away. No harsh punishments needed. Just a quiet excusal and that's when they really know that they messed up.

Don't feel guilty about it. You can either fix it now, or you can waste lots of money week after week by being afraid to pull your dog. I did it. I spent a whole year not pulling Trax because I just wanted to try and get a Q, so I let him get away with a toenail in the yellow or coming almost all the way down and then jumping off the side. Because I didn't correct it, I spent a year getting no Q's because I let him run the course his own way. Even now I find myself not pulling him like that first run on Saturday and then feeling stupid when I see that I just reinforced that it's ok for him to repeat that behavior.

Yeah, it may seem like you just wasted money on a run, but you're actually saving money and time for the future and ensuring a better Q rate down the line :wink2:
 
It really is hard to pull her, but I wish I had started when the issue first came up. I've unfortunately been reinforcing that this behavior is acceptable for the couple of trials we've done where I didn't haul her off.
You know, I really shouldn't care about the money of the run, yet somehow I still do. By the time she barks me down at the weave poles, she's already NQ'd us anyway. It's just taking some adjusting to accept that I have a dog that I need to pull when things get out of control.
In a way, I really am glad I did the NADAC trial. I'm not ever going to do NADAC seriously. It was a one time deal because of having no easter plans, so I didn't care if I threw the ten dollars away on hauling her off. It was what led me to discovering that it actually helped with her.
 
River has two issues that have recently surfaced. First is a sucking A-frame. He couldn't do weave poles in class the other night because the a-frame was right behind them. He would do three, wander towards the frame, look at me, take a couple more steps... gah. His poles aren't fantastic to begin with, and this is not helping!

Second, he has decided to start sniffing. The second time his nose hits the floor, I pull him off. It is not acceptable, and I don't want him thinking he can sniff and come back when he wants to. Sniff, sniff, done. No cookie and in the crate he goes. Doesn't bother me one bit.

At his last trial, I pulled him off the course two of four runs, managed to finish (but not Q) the third, and pulled him completely from the fourth. He is entered this Saturday, we will see what we get!
 
It really is hard to pull her, but I wish I had started when the issue first came up. I've unfortunately been reinforcing that this behavior is acceptable for the couple of trials we've done where I didn't haul her off.
You know, I really shouldn't care about the money of the run, yet somehow I still do. By the time she barks me down at the weave poles, she's already NQ'd us anyway. It's just taking some adjusting to accept that I have a dog that I need to pull when things get out of control.
In a way, I really am glad I did the NADAC trial. I'm not ever going to do NADAC seriously. It was a one time deal because of having no easter plans, so I didn't care if I threw the ten dollars away on hauling her off. It was what led me to discovering that it actually helped with her.

I totally understand. You feel bad for pulling them, you don't want to waste the money, etc. It was easier this weekend pulling him in USDAA. He had 9 runs so one run pulled didn't seem like such a big deal to me. In AKC I normally only have 4 runs in a weekend so that's a big difference to me.
 
I think it depends entirely on the dog. People tend to think sheltie=sensitive so don't do it, but I disagree. Especially when it comes to dogs that are drivey, excitable and rewarded by just running.

I haven't pulled Lexi yet in a trial (we've only had 1) but I've pulled her in run-throughs. In fact, I pulled her yesterday and she didn't get to play. She decided that she knew the course and ran about 30-40' away from me because she thought she knew where she was going. I was facing the other direction. So, she lost her turn. Sometimes it's the only thing that works because allowing her to continue is just telling her she was right all along.

I have a friend who has an out of control aussie. She would bark bark bark all the way to the start line, break her stay, knock the first bar, and flatten a lot of the others. She took a private seminar with Stuart who instructed her to give her a routine, use calming techniques, etc...to get her to the start line. If she barked (she has a normal bark and a crazy bark) crazy, then she just turned and calmly left not saying a word. The same was true if she broke her stay--because it was lack of self control.

I won't say that she is fixed, but she is able to run the course about 80% of the time now, whereas before she was barking/reacting/going nuts for almost all of them.
 
I also thought I would add that I would probably never pull Bentley. It took a long time to build up the speed and confidence that he has.

One time I did quit with him (it was too hard for him) because I was getting frustrated. But, he had no idea because I took some jumps on the way out and he still got his cookies :biggrin2:
 
When it comes to pulling a dog. I say do what is right for your dog and don't let anyone say otherwise.

I started pulling Koji in NADAC, I was actually amazed at how many people would say to me, "good choice" as I walked back to our tent. With Koji though, unfortunately, I don't think pulling him does much. I also only do it when he is clearly not paying me any attention.

In AKC, I started putting him in a down (he hates that more than sits), THEN picking him up, thanking the judge and walking out, no treats and immediately into his crate. Still not sure if he gets it. Getting him to down takes awhile sometimes too, so I try to do it fast. If he's not going down, I put him in a sit. Point is, it makes him realize he needs to collect himself and calm down.

So, I do it. I do it when it's necessary. I try not to do it too often or too much. And since I don't think Koji gets it, I rarely do it if he messes up. It doesn't register that messing up means no more agility. He's a little dense like that.
 
When it comes to pulling a dog. I say do what is right for your dog and don't let anyone say otherwise.

You said what I've been thinking as I read through this thread; especially the at the point where people criticized you for pulling your Sheltie. They don't know your dog, you do.

I've never been in a position where I've had to pull Edan and his temperament probably has a lot to do with that. Would I pull him if I had to in order to drive a point home? Yes.

I'm actually considering whether or not to start pulling him for blowing his 2o2o on the DW and A-frame to drive home the point that what we practice in training needs to be done on course. Why don't I? Because I'm not sure it will sink in that way and I also don't want to start discouraging Edan from the game. Agility is meant to be fun time with mom and he loves to run with me. I don't want to loose that.
 
from the wisdom of Susan Garrett " susanisms"
You got a feedback from your dog, be happy and embrace holes in your training!
So far my training looks like a swiss cheese:biggrin2:
 
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