Training "hold item with mouth"

Okay. I will wait him out tomorrow morning as long as possible. I have to go to work at some point, so I can't wait too long. lol. I'll also try to see if he'll work for fetch/tug with the toy (with and without clicking - I'll try a verbal marker first).

And lastly, I'm not sure there is such a thing as "low value" to Koji. He acts like his kibble is the bestest thing in the world. He loves Charlee Bears and even those stars things. He doesn't discriminate.LOL On the other end, it's hard to figure out what is high value too. I just figure things like tripe is better than kibble, but who knows.
 
Justicemom said:
yes wait longer,put the toys right in front of his face and reward even a quick eye glace and then next for more. I waited for Ember once for 45 minutes once and Diva for 30 during certain steps of the retrieve(it was the take) but still
. They got stuck and I just waited them out. Put them both on leash so they didn't wander away. Problem is he used to you helping him,let him think about it.
Click to expand...

yes, shaping is about waiting it out, so they offer behavior. I completely agree wait him out, a flick an ear twitch a turn of the head. Get him to offer anything, I assume because you 'helped' in the past he hasn't quite figured out he can try all kinds of things to see if you drop a treat... also I totally recommend impulse control games... like the it's your choice videos.. it's step back, BUT after you train with that it lets u put treats down and the dog won't touch it and may start to offer behaviours instead...

You probably already know the steps, but it's always good to revisit!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipT5k1gaXhc
 
You can do old and traditional success of approximations, it is could be long wait and very boring.
You said he does fetch? Are there any toys he likes to retrieve more? What happens when he brings toy back? Does he place it in your hand? Do you have cue like "get it"? Can you build moment of his placing toy in your hand to release point? I.e. you dog brings toy back and you start with just a moment delay then say drop or whatever word and put your hand to get the toy.... Then tell him "lets run to get your cookie" and you both run to the area where your cookie jar or whatever is. Keep building time of holding to longer intervals until release word.
What I do when my dogs won't tug in presence of the food is to leave the food on the table and walk with them some distance, offer tug, no go, walk away more, next room, out of the building... yes, we tug here, great, lets run back have a treat and have a party. Usually you might start with distance but after few times it goes faster. BUT you have to have a behavior in the first place.
Yes, that "Its your choice" game that Toffee's mom posted is great way to start. My whole training program I follow is about IYC
 
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I'm going to have to watch the video. Maybe tomorrow. Tonight is agility! And I am TIRED! Bleah.

Anyhow. When Koji fetches this is how it goes.
First, he brings me the toy. He may or may not drop it. If he doesn't, I just tug on it a bit and make growly noises at him to get him excited. He likes it better when I play keep away with it on the ground (y'know, it mimic's prey).

Then I throw it. Usually he'll go after it (not always though). When he brings it back, usually he holds it in his mouth. Sometimes if he finds the squeaker, he'll stand there and squeak it at me. Sometimes he'll drop it.

Repeat from the first step. After awhile he stops retrieving. It's then that'll I'll tell him, "get your toy" or "where's your toy" and sometimes he'll get it (I'm pretty sure he knows what it means, as he gets his toy - I even think he knows what "dragon" and "ball" is versus "toy", but I could be oh so very wrong, lol).

From what I've noticed, if I put food into the equation at all, toys lose all their value. Even my bait bag loses its value WITH yummy food in it. He will sniff it, paw it for food, but won't even pick it up. It's like he forgets what a toy is.

I'll see what I can do about the food, but usually once he knows it's the treat he's getting, toys don't matter...anywhere. It took a VERY long time to get him to tug even a little on a bait bag for a reward. I imagine I may end up being in a different state before he forgets about food. :rolleyes2:

I'll try to work with his natural wanting to play fetch with me. Since he does hold it sometimes and he has a command to drop it.
 
I guess I just wanted to post to mention something. I have tried and tried and tried to get Lexi to interact with an object using clicker training and a treat. I haven't been able to figure it out. I think I must have waited for 10-15 minutes one time while she was offering behaviors (scratching my legs to death "marching"!) running around, barking, and then she just gave up and lost interest.

But, I know there is a trick to it. There are some things that I have read and think "my dogs can't do that". I used to think that about teaching Lexi to interact with something and rewarding with treats. Now, I just think that she CAN do it, but I don't know how to unlock her understanding.

Here's why...and it just occurred to me last night. When we first started agility we mostly used treats in practice. I started using toys more and more often. But still, if we rewarded with treats, she wasn't interested in tugging. She would just half-heartedly grab the tug, then drop it and look for her cookie.

But, we started building value into specific "agility" or "training" toys that she values above the others. Now I realized that she will work for a toy--or a treat interchangeably. I still can't have the treat in my hand, or even crinkle the bag and expect her to continue tugging. But I can go from one reward to the other.

Sorry that was so long. I say all that to say that I think it's possible--you just have to make the toy as rewarding as the food. Use a toy when he's really amped up (we started first with Lexi in the weaves because she gets amped and drives ahead). I think once you make the toy awesome, the food is still awesome (of course!) but the toy will also be valuable.

Long winded thoughts--not sure if they help or not!
 
All good points. I mean, Koji was at some point excited about his bait bag. But honestly, it was a LOT of work to get him revved up over a toy and a lot of work to make it rewarding. Yes, I took the easy way out and used treats instead.

I'll see what I can do though. Koji sounds exactly like Lexi though.
 
corbinam said:
I guess I just wanted to post to mention something. I have tried and tried and tried to get Lexi to interact with an object using clicker training and a treat. I haven't been able to figure it out. I think I must have waited for 10-15 minutes one time while she was offering behaviors (scratching my legs to death "marching"!) running around, barking, and then she just gave up and lost interest.

But, I know there is a trick to it. There are some things that I have read and think "my dogs can't do that". I used to think that about teaching Lexi to interact with something and rewarding with treats. Now, I just think that she CAN do it, but I don't know how to unlock her understanding.

Here's why...and it just occurred to me last night. When we first started agility we mostly used treats in practice. I started using toys more and more often. But still, if we rewarded with treats, she wasn't interested in tugging. She would just half-heartedly grab the tug, then drop it and look for her cookie.

But, we started building value into specific "agility" or "training" toys that she values above the others. Now I realized that she will work for a toy--or a treat interchangeably. I still can't have the treat in my hand, or even crinkle the bag and expect her to continue tugging. But I can go from one reward to the other.

Sorry that was so long. I say all that to say that I think it's possible--you just have to make the toy as rewarding as the food. Use a toy when he's really amped up (we started first with Lexi in the weaves because she gets amped and drives ahead). I think once you make the toy awesome, the food is still awesome (of course!) but the toy will also be valuable.

Long winded thoughts--not sure if they help or not!
Click to expand...
Everyone has their own journey. You achieved things in agility many people will never have with their dogs. Just the other day SG was telling us that she sometimes thinks how nice to be competitor who can run fast and be able to be in places they want...
compliments of SG training I now KNOW that sky is the limit in dog training.... year ago I would have though I can not teach many things my dogs know today.
As for food and toys and holds, one of our IC challenge was to teach pup to hold a spoon with a food in it.:lol: Che holds a plastic spoon with meat in it for about 1-2 sec so we still work in progress but we have the behavior:yes:
 
Uh-oh, I think I may have taught something by accident. That or it's what he does.

Okay, so I was working with his rope toy. It was going well. He'd lie down and I'd put it on his feet so it was in front of his face, he'd look, I'd click. He started doing a nose touch to it, I was getting excited. Then......

oh no. instead of nosing it more, he stands up, and paws at it. So it basically ends up under him and then he lies on it. :no: That's not helping. If I pull it out from under him, he will nose touch it, then paws again at it and underneath it goes.

Whoops. How can I get him to stop pawing it? I was hoping I could go from a nose touch to a nose push. Sigh. TWo steps forward, one step back.

Any thoughts? Thanks.
 
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