Mignarda
Forums Enthusiast
I'm still trying to figure out what a sable merle is. I know what it is genetically, but I'm not sure I could pick one out of a bunch.
Trying to understand sheltie colors/breeding..
- Thread starter Minniesmom15
- Start date
Calliesmom
Moderator
that is because black diluted to bluish gray is obvious.
brown diluted is not so obvious- it's just a lighter brown or a grayish brown.
I saw a beautiful sable merle girl being shown at a conformation show- she had brown eyes and was the first I had seen. I knew of blue merles and always wanted one- when I saw her, I wanted a sable merle- but one that you could tell that it was a sable merle.
I think I got it with Cranberry who could not be shown in AKC conformation (one blue eye) but could have been shown in UKC conformation- if he hadn't gotten a little too tall
Jess041
Forums Enthusiast
I found this really cool website about dog genetics, but shelties are mentioned quite frequently throughout the pages. If you like reading about genetics, I highly recommend it. It has a lot of pictures and explanations!
http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/index.htm
Merles have diluted patches, so a black dog (tri color or bi black) with the merle gene will have grey patches. A sable with the merle gene will have patches of lighter color brown. You know how you said you wouldn't be able to pick one out? It is my understanding that this is why some people take issue with breeding sable merles. If you breed two sable merles accidentally because you couldn't tell they were both merles, you can end up with double merle puppies, which means those puppies could have health issues. Not good. But a breeder can be extra cautious and make sure they only breed a sable merle to a black dog or a sable that didn't have any merle parents.
http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/index.htm
Merles have diluted patches, so a black dog (tri color or bi black) with the merle gene will have grey patches. A sable with the merle gene will have patches of lighter color brown. You know how you said you wouldn't be able to pick one out? It is my understanding that this is why some people take issue with breeding sable merles. If you breed two sable merles accidentally because you couldn't tell they were both merles, you can end up with double merle puppies, which means those puppies could have health issues. Not good. But a breeder can be extra cautious and make sure they only breed a sable merle to a black dog or a sable that didn't have any merle parents.
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
Yes that is one reason many people don't like Sable Merles, they can be very hard to recognize. They are more obvious usually at birth and become less obvious as they age.
Example: This is Pike. He is a Sable Merle from a Blue Merle and a Pure for Sable. He was obvious at birth. He had 2 Mahogany Sable littermates.
Pike only has 2 obvious spots but the key is the faded mask and silvering around the ears. The Picture with Justice shows the obvious difference.
Pike has 2 brown eyes and is pointed in AKC conformation.
http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=180&pictureid=1996
http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=180&pictureid=2020
This is Ember and her sable merle brother Brodie.
http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=180&pictureid=1923
and Ember and her sable merle sister MACH Duchie UD
http://www.sheltieforums.com/album.php?albumid=180&pictureid=1929
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Jess041
Forums Enthusiast
He could've fooled me!
Minniesmom15
Forums Regular
I'm not breeding
I have a 9 month old pup (who will be neutered at 12-18months) and on a waiting list for a bi-blackxbi-blue breeding early next year. Just a pet/performance owner!ETA: Thanks everyone! I will be spending the next hour reading all the info in the links!
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
Of course, there are some really obvious sable merles out there
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/486573_10150959213103283_991073763_n.jpg
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/556625_10151332958343283_1592759546_n.jpg
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/1176156_10151757793493283_708447503_n.jpg
They may not be very popular as they are very obvious sable merles with the conformation people, but all of the agility people seem to love their coloring. Many think they are red merles like seen in Border Collies or Aussies.
The only real issue I've run into is the one idiot breeder in my area who thinks they look like brindles
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/486573_10150959213103283_991073763_n.jpg
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/556625_10151332958343283_1592759546_n.jpg
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/1176156_10151757793493283_708447503_n.jpg
They may not be very popular as they are very obvious sable merles with the conformation people, but all of the agility people seem to love their coloring. Many think they are red merles like seen in Border Collies or Aussies.
The only real issue I've run into is the one idiot breeder in my area who thinks they look like brindles
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Calliesmom
Moderator
Of course, there are some really obvious sable merles out there
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/486573_10150959213103283_991073763_n.jpg
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/556625_10151332958343283_1592759546_n.jpg
http://hopeshelties.webs.com/1176156_10151757793493283_708447503_n.jpg
They may not be very popular as they are very obvious sable merles with the conformation people, but all of the agility people seem to love their coloring. Many think they are red merles like seen in Border Collies or Aussies.
The only real issue I've run into is the one idiot breeder in my area who thinks they look like brindles
very pretty
is one of them Lark?
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
Lark is the second and third photo. The other is Breeze as a puppy. I dont have any side photos of her other than as a little puppy that show her merling well.