up and coming

[Strider]

Hello!
as I mentioned in my introduction, I plan on getting my little sheltie girl involved in flyball. While I'm not a really hard core competitor on things, I'm interested in what kind of times one can typically expecxt from sheltie.

The team I'm going to be training with has two shelties on it right now that are posting 6.5~6.75 sec runs but they seem to be running in slow gear..

I expect my Little Jack Russell to be under 5 sec. Is it reasonable to assume the same for my sheltie? She runs faster than him when they are playing but I'm not sure if she will have the same drive as him.

 

[Caro]

Racing times depend on the size of the dog and the experience. Smaller dogs tend to be slower and are usually the 'height' dogs on the team - which means you are usually flat out in the last half of the comps so the heights of the jumps can be lowered, because the dogs are tired.

Newer dogs will watch the other team running and this will also slow them down. Some dogs are also a little hesitant at cross-overs

Then there is the run up. Until your dog gets confident and the handler is confident with cross overs you tend to do a standing start. After a time you can do a running start and a running finish.

And of course there is the time it takes for your dog to catch the ball and turn.

Both my sheltie are about 7.5 sec after 3 comps. Tully jumps at 7" and Deska at 9". I am aiming for 6.5sec for Tully at state comps in Feb. Deska will do what he feels like

I'm working on Tully catching the ball and her focus (watching the other dogs) and for Deska his run to the box. You are much better off focusing on tightening all the various parts before working on speed.

5 sec is really fast and usually run by the top Border Collies.

6.5 sec is a good time for an experienced sheltie, esp at training.

My team's current 'seed' time (the best time in the last 3 races) is 22.489 and are currently in Division 2 (there are 8 divisions in Aust). The beauty of flyball is they have divisions for all speeds - and unless you are division 1 you can forfeit a race for being too fast! Plus, the people in Division 1 are a bit too serious for me!

Sorry about the long post - dont often get to talk flyball tactics on the forum.

 

[RonandJan]

But I love to read about it. I know nothing about the sport, but I would love to watch it.

And................."Deska will do what he feels like" Your comment made me laugh! Deska must be quite a character!

 

[Strider]

Thanks for the tips Caro!
One thing I don't want to do is take it too seriously. Mainly I want the puppies to have fun with me and the wife.

There's only two flyball clubs here and a total of 5 teams so I don't think we have to worry about divisions right now hehe..

I agree with RonandJan, Deska sounds like a hoot!

From reading the web, one of the first things we need to do is get them thrilled with a tug toy so we started working on that last week. Darby goes insane when we bring out the tug toys! Deja did too when we first started.

In fact, we thought both dogs were extremely motivated so we tried to move on to phase two where one person holds the dog and the other runs away with the tug then you let the dog chase them. It was great for Darby. He loves it. But Deja, not so much.. I think when I held her it scared her because she lost all interest in the tug when we tried it with her. I worked with her for the next couple nights back at square one, just trying to get her to play tug with me again.. She's starting to show interest again but now I'm afraid to move on to the next step. I think I'm going to have to go a lot slower with her.

 

[Justicemom]

Thanks for the tips Caro!
One thing I don't want to do is take it too seriously. Mainly I want the puppies to have fun with me and the wife.

There's only two flyball clubs here and a total of 5 teams so I don't think we have to worry about divisions right now hehe..

I agree with RonandJan, Deska sounds like a hoot!

From reading the web, one of the first things we need to do is get them thrilled with a tug toy so we started working on that last week. Darby goes insane when we bring out the tug toys! Deja did too when we first started.

In fact, we thought both dogs were extremely motivated so we tried to move on to phase two where one person holds the dog and the other runs away with the tug then you let the dog chase them. It was great for Darby. He loves it. But Deja, not so much.. I think when I held her it scared her because she lost all interest in the tug when we tried it with her. I worked with her for the next couple nights back at square one, just trying to get her to play tug with me again.. She's starting to show interest again but now I'm afraid to move on to the next step. I think I'm going to have to go a lot slower with her.

Did Deja run after you when you held her or did she not want to do anything(ie shutdown)?

the reason I ask is Diva is a great tugger when she is infront of me. When we do the restrained run away thing she will not grab the tug. Runs pass me ,crosses behind, circles around. I do restrained recall and she almost falls on her head she is trying to get to me so bad. So it took me forever to figure out what the problem was.

When I run away and she is held back her attention focuses on me(my feet and legs ie she goes into herding mode) not the tug toy(prey drive). Then I got worried and that worried her and the tug behavior went out the window. My guess is that is what is happening with Deja and that Darby being a terrier is staying in prey drive.

Try moving a little slower and get her really focused on that toy. I woundn't run yet. Just restain her and move out about 10 ft . Get really excited. wiggle the toy around when she is nuts for it or release . She doesn't need to be dragging you to the toy but at least moving for it.
Add the running when she is focusing on the tug at a distance. Sometimes with shelties they are too handler focused.

 

[Strider]

Did Deja run after you when you held her or did she not want to do anything(ie shutdown)?

the reason I ask is Diva is a great tugger when she is infront of me. When we do the restrained run away thing she will not grab the tug. Runs pass me ,crosses behind, circles around. I do restrained recall and she almost falls on her head she is trying to get to me so bad. So it took me forever to figure out what the problem was.

When I run away and she is held back her attention focuses on me(my feet and legs ie she goes into herding mode) not the tug toy(prey drive). Then I got worried and that worried her and the tug behavior went out the window. My guess is that is what is happening with Deja and that Darby being a terrier is staying in prey drive.

Try moving a little slower and get her really focused on that toy. I woundn't run yet. Just restain her and move out about 10 ft . Get really excited. wiggle the toy around when she is nuts for it or release . She doesn't need to be dragging you to the toy but at least moving for it.
Add the running when she is focusing on the tug at a distance. Sometimes with shelties they are too handler focused.

She shut down completely. I think that when i grabbed her, it spooked her.
It was so bad that even if I dangled the tug under her nose and swung it around she would just sit and stare at me. She is starting to play with it again so I don't think there was any long term damage done but boy howdy did she shut down..
I will try your advice. i have a feeling it's going to be baby steps with her.

 

[corbinam]

But Deja, not so much.. I think when I held her it scared her because she lost all interest in the tug when we tried it with her. I worked with her for the next couple nights back at square one, just trying to get her to play tug with me again.. She's starting to show interest again but now I'm afraid to move on to the next step. I think I'm going to have to go a lot slower with her.

We had a similar experience when we were working on target training with Bentley. We would put a high-reward treat on a target plate, and hold Bentley back. When he would start to go for it we would pull him back, to "rev" him up. Unfortunately, he's so mild-mannered that he thought that meant that he should leave it, and wasn't too keen on going back to it as he thought he was doing wrong.

We had to basically do baby steps. So in your case, maybe don't grab Deja, but stand behind her and have the other person take one step away. Then slowly a bit farther away. Then maybe touch her as she goes for the tug toy, but don't grab her. As soon as she figures out that the objective is the same (to get that toy!) she'll be fine, but for some dogs it takes some time.

 

[Strider]

We had to basically do baby steps. So in your case, maybe don't grab Deja, but stand behind her and have the other person take one step away. Then slowly a bit farther away. Then maybe touch her as she goes for the tug toy, but don't grab her. As soon as she figures out that the objective is the same (to get that toy!) she'll be fine, but for some dogs it takes some time.

That sounds like great advice! We'll try that. Funny thing about the 'leave it' command..

We have never yelled at Deja nor given her negative reinforcement of any kind. When I was teaching her the 'leave it' command, I used positive reinforcement with treats. After a couple sessions, she had it down pat but she took it to the extreme. If I show her a treat and tell her to leave it, I can toss it on the floor and she darts away like it's on fire. Note, I don't throw it at her or even in her direction.. if she know's it something that she is supposed to 'leave it' on, she stays away!!

Just one of her quirks.

 

[Justicemom]

That sounds like great advice! We'll try that. Funny thing about the 'leave it' command..

We have never yelled at Deja nor given her negative reinforcement of any kind. When I was teaching her the 'leave it' command, I used positive reinforcement with treats. After a couple sessions, she had it down pat but she took it to the extreme. If I show her a treat and tell her to leave it, I can toss it on the floor and she darts away like it's on fire. Note, I don't throw it at her or even in her direction.. if she know's it something that she is supposed to 'leave it' on, she stays away!!

Just one of her quirks.

Sounds like a sheltie. They try so hard. Ember is that way. Ember is a barker big time,anywhere, any time. But she doesn't bark when she is working obedience or agility. The reason one day I training with her and she barked(barks can cost you a point a bark in obedience) at me as we moved to the next setup point. I had been whipping her up for the next exercise. I stopped talking to her, stopped dead in my tracks and dropped my hands straight down at my side. Ember stopped dead and the look on her face was like I slapped her. She has never barked again. I can't even get her to bark with a speak command in the ring(obedience or agility). Ember even takes my frustration with myself personally.

Seeing as she shutdown, I think Ashley advise is great.

 

[Strider]

OMG Ember sounds sooo sweet!

I hate using the leave it command now because I don't want to upset Deja. I must admit, I have been acused on rare, very rare occasions of spoiling my little Baby Girl.