USDAA vs.AKC.vs.CPE vs.TDAA

I'm personally a fan of AKC agility. I'm a competitive person, and I want to compete in a serious, competitive venue. That leaves AKC or USDAA, and with limited finances, it has to be one or another. Because I breed and need titles on my dogs papers (how bad would it look to have a 4 generation pedigree with no titles in anything on any of the dogs? They may have been ADCHs or CATCHs, or NATCHs but nobody would no based on the papers) and because AKC suits my dogs heights better, and because AKC trials are more readily available around here I do AKC over USDAA. I have dogs that jump 12" in AKC, and I don't like that Athena at 13.25" would have to run against what in AKC are the bigger 16" shelties in USDAA. Sure, they could run performance, but those same bigger dogs are still allowed in performance, so that's no help.
As far as CPE and NADAC, beyond using them as a training tool to find out where a baby dog is prior to entering their first AKC trial, I have no interest in them. In NADAC, I don't like the black contact equipment, trials aren't very plentiful around here, and I don't find it as serious as AKC or USDAA. That, and around here what competes in NADAC isn't very impressive. I want to compete against more competitive dogs. The excellent dogs around here for the most part look like AKC novice dogs. And, it says something about the rest of the competition when the fastest dog in the entire trial is my 13.25" Athena (not that she's slow- we were getting 5-5.5yps there). CPE is as far as I'm concerned too easy. The courses don't hold up to AKC excellent level courses. It's another venue I don't feel is as serious either. I've even watched their nationals on youtube and the courses aren't very challenging, and the dogs competing there aren't up to the standard of AKC or USDAA nationals top dogs.
The one venue I will never, ever do is TDAA. It is my opinion that shelties don't belong there. Teacup was designed for little dogs who have trouble getting around the traditional bigger courses in other venues, and have trouble doing the large contact equipment- specifically the teeter and a-frame. Too many times I saw tiny yorkies and other ittie bittie dogs struggle to get over the aframe. For a sheltie with any real speed, I feel the courses require too much jerking around, and that you are going to slow your dog down over time as they will constantly be looking to slow down to make it through the course.
 
I don't know if I have a favorite. I haven't trialed enough in USDAA to really know it and the people. I can see USDAA becoming a favorite with the games, but I won't know until I get there. So, I'll break it down and this is just my opinion.

AKC
Pros: Lots of trials (weekly) and most are close by, competitive, great people, great judges, tighter courses make it more challenging and fun, "safer" jump heights, short days
Cons: People sometimes (as in they don't really watch their dogs well or become mean when competitive), leash rules in ring (although it's great to get them off early, I've seen a dog charge one running, not good), can we say expensive! FAST doesn't seem like a challenge (even though it is to me), and I'm not really getting T2B (the point of it, although everyone seems to have fun running).

USDAA (only trialed twice, so not sure)
Pros: Lots of game, tournament games, flowy spread out courses (a bit more than AKC), friendly people, laid-back trial environment, competitive
Cons: Jump heights (mostly the 16" range), hard to get permanent height card with so few judges on the list, height of a-frame, up contacts are in play, those darn leash rules, not many around unless I want to drive 90 miles.

CPE
Pros: Lots of games, can enter in higher levels if you're experienced, great for novices (lots of positive reinforcement at lower levels), people are typically laid back, judges are really nice and helpful, jump heights are reasonable
Cons: A-frame height (it's so low compared to most that it throws the dogs off), not many around unless I want to drive far, it could be my club, but it's a LONG day, many games uses the table to stop the clock (regardless if they stay on it - which can lead to self-rewarding the fly-offs)

NADAC/ASCA
Pros: Great for novices, no teeter/table, fast flowy runs, laid back trial atmosphere, people are really nice and only want to help, lots of games, although some are super competitive, they're never "mean" about it, jump heights are reasonable, the judges are really nice, easy to move dogs around (running order) TUNNELERS!! I've never seen so many dogs having fun running Tunnelers. ;) ASCA ONLY: You can start in the highest level if you have titles in AKC/NADAC
Cons: No teeter/table (or so I've been told over and over again), black contacts, sometimes too laid back, long days, not as many trials, and they're the furthest of all the venues, man oh man you need distance for some of the games

UKI/TDAA
Never ran either, never seen to a trial, so I have no opinion on those.

Lastly, a lot of this depends on the people at the trials. The worst people I have seen are at AKC trials, but it could be my area. The nicest group is NADAC and CPE. USDAA was a mixed-bag.
 
SheltieChe said:
what about non competitive standpoint? Which one is the friendliest? You know the one that people actually care about having good time more and cheering for each other as opposed to getting frustrated because your dog is not the number #1 by 0.001 sec?:biggrin2:
I have very little experience except our club UKC trial which has strict /I think/ rules but fun.
I have met couple of competitive people in foundation class which is loosely run for people with their baby dogs or need to improve skills so it various sets of equipment and everyone takes turns. I have had somewhat bitter experience from it as those people were trying to elbow into "best spots" and stay there the longest with no regard for others, you know this kind of "rat race". How many of those people would I meet in each venue?
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I think it totally depends on your area and the people. If you can, I'd say go watch a trial and observe or enter in one to get a better feel.

For me, NADAC and CPE are the least competitive and most friendly. It's not to say people aren't serious and don't want to win, but let me put it this way. Tunnelers is all tunnels, we usually run it last. The Elite group was pushing one another to see who could run the fastest. The entire time, they were laughing, talking smack in a fun way, and hoping to win by tenths of a second. But never, did you see anyone get upset or anything. And they all partook in the funness of it all, just because. That is what I like about NADAC.

I'd say AKC and USDAA are the most competitive (mostly because they have really really big "nationals" and are the toughest of the venue's). But then, I've also seen the most mean people there and the most ignorant dog owners too. And on the flip side, I have seen people cheering one another one, I see people clapping and having a grand time (especially when a woman I know runs her bulldog, hehehe), and they all celebrate when someone gets a MACH (never saw one at USDAA), even if it's their 8th. lol.

JMHO. Again, I think it depends on your area. I was thinking about what HopeShelties wrote about how the Elite group in NADAC are like Novice AKC level, but where I am at, a lot of the people are the top in NADAC, which means they look nothing like Novice level people. So where you live, obviously is a huge factor.
 
k9kreationz said:
USDAA (only trialed twice, so not sure)
Pros: Lots of game, tournament games, flowy spread out courses (a bit more than AKC), friendly people, laid-back trial environment, competitive
Cons: Jump heights (mostly the 16" range), hard to get permanent height card with so few judges on the list, height of a-frame, up contacts are in play, those darn leash rules, not many around unless I want to drive 90 miles.
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I think it's interesting that a couple people mentioned the difficulty in getting a permanent height card. Both of my dogs got their 3 measurements in their first 3 trials. Had no trouble finding the 2 judges + a CMJ. Wonder if that's a regional complaint?

Also, Cheryl, there aren't any leash rules in USDAA. I think that's only applicable to AKC.
 
corbinam said:
I think it's interesting that a couple people mentioned the difficulty in getting a permanent height card. Both of my dogs got their 3 measurements in their first 3 trials. Had no trouble finding the 2 judges + a CMJ. Wonder if that's a regional complaint?

Also, Cheryl, there aren't any leash rules in USDAA. I think that's only applicable to AKC.
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I know when my club had our first USDAA trial (so no Master's), a lot of people said how hard it was for us to get the 2 CMJ's (and they had been to way more than me). One woman said it took her a year and that was trialing semi-regularly. LOL.

Oh, the con was the fact that USDAA and AKC's leash rules are very lax. It's probably because I started in NADAC which probably has the harshest rules for leashes. But I understand why it's done so I'd like to see them tightened up in other venues. I'm sure AKC/USDAA people would have a fit though, lol
 
k9kreationz said:
Oh, the con was the fact that USDAA and AKC's leash rules are very lax. It's probably because I started in NADAC which probably has the harshest rules for leashes. But I understand why it's done so I'd like to see them tightened up in other venues. I'm sure AKC/USDAA people would have a fit though, lol
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A judge at our trial this year took away a MACH because of the leash rule. If you MACH, put the leash ON THE DOG before you do your happy dance.

My friend is an agility judge, and he has started to do an "air lock" at the out side of the ring. This way the dogs can't escape without a leash.
 
corbinam said:
I think it's interesting that a couple people mentioned the difficulty in getting a permanent height card. Both of my dogs got their 3 measurements in their first 3 trials. Had no trouble finding the 2 judges + a CMJ. Wonder if that's a regional complaint?
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I have yet to find a CMJ at any USDAA event.
 
Akc vs.USDAA vs.CPE.vs.TDAA

ClantyreSheltie said:
A judge at our trial this year took away a MACH because of the leash rule. If you MACH, put the leash ON THE DOG before you do your happy dance.

My friend is an agility judge, and he has started to do an "air lock" at the out side of the ring. This way the dogs can't escape without a leash.
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Here to in New England AKC is very strict with the leash rule.
 
corbinam said:
Good question.
As to USDAA and AKC, I honestly think friendliness depends on location/club/person/region. I have met some incredibly friendly people at events, and I've had a couple bad experiences, too.
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Probably true.
In order of friendliness I've experienced:

#1 NADAC
#2 ASCA
#3 CPE
#4 AKC
#5 USDAA


I've never hear a bad word about another venue, except for at USDAA tests, where I've always heard numerous bad comments about AKC.
USDAA also seems to favor LARGE dogs.
There seems to be somewhat more competitive participants in Performance in USDAA than in Preferred in AKC, especially for the 22" down to 16" which affects shelties. Yet, to my surprise organizers of USDAA have tended to pay lip service to Performance dogs... seems that only large Championship dogs are worthy.
I've also only experienced elitism at USDAA and nowhere else.

CPE might be the least competitive, but I've always been taken back by the friendliness at both NADAC and ASCA.

AKC seems to have rules on so many things, but most well-run AKC events are reasonable, though the "naughty book" and other controversial issues raised in the Clean Run article do exist & can be taken the wrong way.
 
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