The focus is on the dog learning and understanding collection, not the handler. It's not about a handling system. Good agility dogs need to learn to think independently, to be able to judge distance and stride, to understand how to angle their jumps, to be equally comfortable with both leads, and to know how/when to collect. You will not always be in the perfect position to indicate collection, and so the dog needs to be able to react on his/her own. I cue for collection on wraps, sharp turns, and weird weave entries, but that's about it - everything else my dog can deal with independently. This way I'm also not over cueing my dog - if I cued my dog every time he had to collect, he wouldn't know when it was REALLY important to collect vs. an average turn.
Videos from Birchs' agility class
- Thread starter Justicemom
- Start date
The focus is on the dog learning and understanding collection, not the handler. It's not about a handling system. Good agility dogs need to learn to think independently, to be able to judge distance and stride, to understand how to angle their jumps, to be equally comfortable with both leads, and to know how/when to collect. You will not always be in the perfect position to indicate collection, and so the dog needs to be able to react on his/her own. I cue for collection on wraps, sharp turns, and weird weave entries, but that's about it - everything else my dog can deal with independently. This way I'm also not over cueing my dog - if I cued my dog every time he had to collect, he wouldn't know when it was REALLY important to collect vs. an average turn.
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
Thanks Tara, I couldn't find the right words
Che, you can always look up Susan Salo, if one needs to have expert opinions... she talks about grids etc in her stuff.
Other than having FUN it's also about a dog learning to jump properly with form... and independently when needed as Tara explains.
SheltieChe
Forums Sage
I am not terribly familiar with SS grids but my best knowledge Susan Salo has closest thing to jumping circle is her lovingly called "circle of death" which consist of 4 jumps cross like.
Collection taught differently depending on who follows which handling system. DJS book teaches collection on one jump. Susan Salo has collection and extension grids. Silvia Trkman has cik and cap. Am sure there are plenty of other trainers who went their own route.
Susan Salo teaches leads on set up that looks like W and it is distance of approach the the set up that actually makes dog to choose what makes his jumping comfortable and choose correct lead, not running around like a pony in a circus.
I absolutely want to provide my dog with forward cues, turning cues and/ or collection cues and balance them depending on the course. And I believe I ALWAYS am cuing my dog. As my bible says/ DHS that is
/
" I am always in motion or not, facing some direction, located somewhere relative to the obstacle and my dog, and making eye contact or not. So even when I am not intentionally cueing my dog, I am still cueing him to do something"
Collection taught differently depending on who follows which handling system. DJS book teaches collection on one jump. Susan Salo has collection and extension grids. Silvia Trkman has cik and cap. Am sure there are plenty of other trainers who went their own route.
Susan Salo teaches leads on set up that looks like W and it is distance of approach the the set up that actually makes dog to choose what makes his jumping comfortable and choose correct lead, not running around like a pony in a circus.
I absolutely want to provide my dog with forward cues, turning cues and/ or collection cues and balance them depending on the course. And I believe I ALWAYS am cuing my dog. As my bible says/ DHS that is
/ " I am always in motion or not, facing some direction, located somewhere relative to the obstacle and my dog, and making eye contact or not. So even when I am not intentionally cueing my dog, I am still cueing him to do something"
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
I am not terribly familiar with SS grids but my best knowledge Susan Salo has closest thing to jumping circle is her lovingly called "circle of death" which consist of 4 jumps cross like.
Collection taught differently depending on who follows which handling system. DJS book teaches collection on one jump. Susan Salo has collection and extension grids. Silvia Trkman has cik and cap. Am sure there are plenty of other trainers who went their own route.
Susan Salo teaches leads on set up that looks like W and it is distance of approach the the set up that actually makes dog to choose what makes his jumping comfortable and choose correct lead, not running around like a pony in a circus.
I absolutely want to provide my dog with forward cues, turning cues and/ or collection cues and balance them depending on the course. And I believe I ALWAYS am cuing my dog. As my bible says/ DHS that is
" I am always in motion or not, facing some direction, located somewhere relative to the obstacle and and my dog, and making eye contact or not. So even when I am not intentionally cueing my dog, I am still cueing him to do something"
Pony in a Circus? Really? Just because you have not heard of an exercise or it didn't come from your guru of the moment doesn't mean that an exercise doesn't have merit or valuable things to teach a dog in agility. I posted these video as something fun to share. You asked a question and we anwsered and did not expect to be made to feel like our instructors and our training methods were inferior.
The exercise is actually based on Nancy Gyes O alphabet drill. Most of the drills are set up for 4 jumps set in even circle, alot of crosses can be practiced off of the O formation and it does build speed and drive. In her book, Nancy describes the use of 6 and 8 jumps varations as well.
Believe it or not, a lot of people wish to gain independence in their dogs performance. Not all of us are fast enough and atheletic enough to keep up with our dogs and mirco manage our dogs like the world top handlers. I tried that with my first 2 dogs and successful taught them to rely on me for they every move. The result 2 incredible accucate(I can count on one hand the times those 2 dogs NQ because of mistakes on course, really 2 fingers) and slow dogs. I like that my dogs can see a jump and take a jump and stay on a line unless I tell them otherwise.
There are a million ways to teach any given exercise that is perfectly acceptable as long as the dog is driven, happy, having fun and meeting the handlers goals. Belittling it, because it is not the way you would do something or the way someone told you to do something is not sportman like.
I am anxiously awating videos of your training sessions and agility trials SheltieChe. I am sure we can all learn something from your well cued and executed handling.
Jess041
Forums Enthusiast
Birch looks great! His tail cracks me up when he's doing the jump circle.. he almost looks like a grey fox!
I am not terribly familiar with SS grids but my best knowledge Susan Salo has closest thing to jumping circle is her lovingly called "circle of death" which consist of 4 jumps cross like.
Collection taught differently depending on who follows which handling system. DJS book teaches collection on one jump. Susan Salo has collection and extension grids. Silvia Trkman has cik and cap. Am sure there are plenty of other trainers who went their own route.
Susan Salo teaches leads on set up that looks like W and it is distance of approach the the set up that actually makes dog to choose what makes his jumping comfortable and choose correct lead, not running around like a pony in a circus.
I absolutely want to provide my dog with forward cues, turning cues and/ or collection cues and balance them depending on the course. And I believe I ALWAYS am cuing my dog. As my bible says/ DHS that is
" I am always in motion or not, facing some direction, located somewhere relative to the obstacle and my dog, and making eye contact or not. So even when I am not intentionally cueing my dog, I am still cueing him to do something"
The great thing about training your dog is that you will never stop learning...unless you choose to. Everyone has something to offer. I've taught my dog collection with one jump, I've used jump grids, and I've used cik and cap. All are great tools, as is the jump circle Dr. Shelli demonstrated. In fact, I liked the jump circle so much I'm now working it into the performance foundations class I teach.
Characterizing this training method as being akin to "running around like a pony in a circus" is dismissive and unfair to the original poster. You've had many experienced competitors who have had significant success competing saying it's a good training exercise, and we've explained to you in detail the reasoning behind it. If you want to limit your training to international trainers, that's fine, but in that case why are you on this forum?
I'm here to learn and to share information. With the assistance of the people on this forum (and without a trainer - world class or not) I've been able to bring my first agility dog from competing in his first agility trial to being an elite level competitor with 11 titles...all within 6 trials spread over 8 months. The advice on here is invaluable, and I would hate for people to stop posting because they are worried about dismissive feedback. Some of the best inventions were created not by scientists or physicists, but average people who saw a need and met the demand. Creativity and problem solving skills are not unique to people like Trkman, Garrett, Derrett, etc. - they just get paid more for it.
So lets keep these training videos coming. Perhaps once the summer hits, we could set up a new thread: "My Favourite Agility Drill" so we can get more ideas off of each other (I only say the summer because I have no access to the training yard until May
, although someone else is welcome to start the thread before then!). The advice and experience on this forum is invaluable - let's take advantage of it.
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Thank you. It's amazing how those of us who don't have a world class trainer to worship have ever made it to the agility ring. I find myself posting less about agility on the forums because I don't have any famous names to drop and have no urge to. I honestly couldn't care less what Susan Halo, Jen Crank, Linda Mecklinburg or any of the others are doing. I have no problem hearing what other trainers do, but I will never subscribe to any gurus as the only way.
Did you know there's even people that have never had a trainer that do agility, all on their own? I swear, it's true! lol!
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
More Birch videos
Here are are couple more videos from Birch's class. Notice he is now up to 16"
He is doing very well with the new height. Of course, he knocks a bar on the video. One of the few he has taken down. I love his euthanism even if I am still figuring out how to work with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDYVG6NWHC4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I have always sucked at front crosses. I now know why. I was not turning fast enough. This was my second effort of the night. The first was a distaster. Couple that with Birch locking on the next jump really early and we need alot of work at this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XMh-w4JZ0c&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here are are couple more videos from Birch's class. Notice he is now up to 16"
He is doing very well with the new height. Of course, he knocks a bar on the video. One of the few he has taken down. I love his euthanism even if I am still figuring out how to work with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDYVG6NWHC4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I have always sucked at front crosses. I now know why. I was not turning fast enough. This was my second effort of the night. The first was a distaster.
Couple that with Birch locking on the next jump really early and we need alot of work at this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XMh-w4JZ0c&feature=youtube_gdata_player