Calliesmom
Moderator
Jade Mist Coastal Cowboy is Bentley's Grandsire, and so is Jade Mist Memorandum (each on different sides). Small world.
inbred world
What is the lineage of your pup?
- Thread starter BarbV
- Start date
inbred world
Lesliedigs
Forums Novice
I have a Nandina/Carmylie
Sire: Carmylie Nandina 'Scuse My Dust "Racer"
Dam: Nandina's Autumn Harmony "Bailey"
Also with the Sire:
Dury Voe
Sire: Carmylie Nandina 'Scuse My Dust "Racer"
Dam: Nandina's Autumn Harmony "Bailey"
Also with the Sire:
Dury Voe
Emmasmom
Forums Sage
Our dogs are related. Emma has Peter Pumpkin on her father's side (a lot) and Piano Man on as well on her father's side.
On her mother, I know she has Golden Hylites the Phantom (very famous Canadian/American/Japanese Champion) on her father's side, which means she could very well be related to my first Sheltie, Golden Hylites Hamish O'Neill.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
inbred world
Yep, and this is exactly why we have "breed specific" diseases. Welcome to a closed registration system. We are lucky that our foundation stock was more than 5 dogs, some breeds are not so lucky.
The thread I started about who's related to whom is an eye opener for me. The pedigree website will tell you how "inbred/linebred" your dog is. I see some dogs in the 17% - 20% range. That seems like a lot to me, but I'm not a breeder and don't have the slightest idea about these kinds of things, so I could very well be wrong.
Is there a certain percentage that someone would not want to cross when considering breeding 2 dogs together? I assume it makes a difference if the common dogs were WAY back in the pedigree, rather than recent... right? .. wrong?
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
http://www.pedigreelines.com/dog/pedigree/id/31
As best I can tell, this is the most inbred individual dog in Shelties.
There are two ways of looking at inbreeding.
First: It is a good way of ferreting out health problems in a line. Because inbreeding reduces genetic diversity, things will pop up, and then you know they are in the line. However, there is only so far you can go before you have to have new genes.
Second: So it's great that you know there are problems, but by doing that you are potentially producing sick dogs.
Inbreeding is how they "set type" in breeds by reducing the genetic variables. Look at Shelties vs. Icelandic Sheepdogs. Shelties have some range in type, but not a lot when compared to the Icies. Icies are all over the board in size, color, expression, body type, etc.
I think a 10% rule is good. My personal goal is to have the COI (Coefficient of inbreeding) be at or less than 10%, while still retaining the traits that I like.
As best I can tell, this is the most inbred individual dog in Shelties.
There are two ways of looking at inbreeding.
First: It is a good way of ferreting out health problems in a line. Because inbreeding reduces genetic diversity, things will pop up, and then you know they are in the line. However, there is only so far you can go before you have to have new genes.
Second: So it's great that you know there are problems, but by doing that you are potentially producing sick dogs.
Inbreeding is how they "set type" in breeds by reducing the genetic variables. Look at Shelties vs. Icelandic Sheepdogs. Shelties have some range in type, but not a lot when compared to the Icies. Icies are all over the board in size, color, expression, body type, etc.
I think a 10% rule is good. My personal goal is to have the COI (Coefficient of inbreeding) be at or less than 10%, while still retaining the traits that I like.
UK pedigrees (for those who are interested!)
I am also a huge lover of pedigrees. I can just lose myself for hours in this kind of thing and joined the Pedigree lines site a while back when it was mentioned on another thread to indulge myself. I have traced my boys back on the male line and female line. We are incredibly fortunate in the UK to have dedicated researchers who have put together the 'Charts' which traces the ancestory of every UK CC winner back to the first recorded 'shelties' on both the male and female lines. It was started by Felicity Rogers of the Riverhill kennel and really is a massivly huge resource. I have aquired all the charts and this makes fascinating pedigree reading.
Revel is 30 generations from Butcher Boy, the founding male. This was a sable dog bred I believe about 1915. His line incorporates some Shelert champions 7+ years ago. His recent male ancestors are all from the Myriehewe kennel.
His female line (the bottom line of the pedigree) I have traced over 24 generations back to the founding female 'Gypsy', a tricolour bitch, born around the same time, who was the mother of 'Blue Floss of Houghton Hill'. He has 8 generations of 'Riverhills' (most UK shelties must have at least one 'Riverhill' behind somewhere I would think). More recently he has 4 generations of 'Blenmerrows'.
Yogi also goes back 30 generations to Butcher Boy, but it is 10 generations back on the male line before Revel and Yogi have a common ancestor.
Yogi's female line also goes back to Gypsy but he is 28 generations away. Revel and Yogi's common ancestor here is only 8 generations down from Gypsy.
To assist in the identification of particular breeding the different lines and Famillies have been named and sub sectioned. Hence I would state Revel's breeding as(Male) Line BB Part II Section 4 and (female) Family 9 Part II.
Yogi is Line BB Part II Section 5 and Family 9 Part I.
Interestingly, the other male line which was quite prolific in about 1979 has by 2010 fallen well by the wayside. The CHE line (Chestnut Rainbow) has only had 3 CC winners since 1995. Once of these, Ch Sunsweet Biggest Dream (Imported) is of interest as she has Grandgables and Banchory in her breeding.
I am also a huge lover of pedigrees. I can just lose myself for hours in this kind of thing and joined the Pedigree lines site a while back when it was mentioned on another thread to indulge myself. I have traced my boys back on the male line and female line. We are incredibly fortunate in the UK to have dedicated researchers who have put together the 'Charts' which traces the ancestory of every UK CC winner back to the first recorded 'shelties' on both the male and female lines. It was started by Felicity Rogers of the Riverhill kennel and really is a massivly huge resource. I have aquired all the charts and this makes fascinating pedigree reading.
Revel is 30 generations from Butcher Boy, the founding male. This was a sable dog bred I believe about 1915. His line incorporates some Shelert champions 7+ years ago. His recent male ancestors are all from the Myriehewe kennel.
His female line (the bottom line of the pedigree) I have traced over 24 generations back to the founding female 'Gypsy', a tricolour bitch, born around the same time, who was the mother of 'Blue Floss of Houghton Hill'. He has 8 generations of 'Riverhills' (most UK shelties must have at least one 'Riverhill' behind somewhere I would think). More recently he has 4 generations of 'Blenmerrows'.
Yogi also goes back 30 generations to Butcher Boy, but it is 10 generations back on the male line before Revel and Yogi have a common ancestor.
Yogi's female line also goes back to Gypsy but he is 28 generations away. Revel and Yogi's common ancestor here is only 8 generations down from Gypsy.
To assist in the identification of particular breeding the different lines and Famillies have been named and sub sectioned. Hence I would state Revel's breeding as(Male) Line BB Part II Section 4 and (female) Family 9 Part II.
Yogi is Line BB Part II Section 5 and Family 9 Part I.
Interestingly, the other male line which was quite prolific in about 1979 has by 2010 fallen well by the wayside. The CHE line (Chestnut Rainbow) has only had 3 CC winners since 1995. Once of these, Ch Sunsweet Biggest Dream (Imported) is of interest as she has Grandgables and Banchory in her breeding.
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ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
Aww... now I'm going to totally geek out.
All of my dogs male lines go back to "Frisky" who was an unregistered dog. All of the dogs male line is the same through Ch. Kalandar Prince O'Page's Hill (including Chestnut Rainbow), where River diverges, he comes from a different son than the other dogs.
The female lines are all over the place.
Marque: Tivannix (start of Fam 12) (Eng)
Liesl: Netherkeir Nellie (eng.) (head of fam 6)
River: Ashbank Flora (head of Fam 2)
Evie (Marque's daughter): Lily (Fam 5) (Eng)
I have a document that has all this for all the dogs. I also paid to have a pedigree of my Collie traced back to the Sunnybank dogs (Albert Peyson Terhunes dogs).
<------- GEEK!!
All of my dogs male lines go back to "Frisky" who was an unregistered dog. All of the dogs male line is the same through Ch. Kalandar Prince O'Page's Hill (including Chestnut Rainbow), where River diverges, he comes from a different son than the other dogs.
The female lines are all over the place.
Marque: Tivannix (start of Fam 12) (Eng)
Liesl: Netherkeir Nellie (eng.) (head of fam 6)
River: Ashbank Flora (head of Fam 2)
Evie (Marque's daughter): Lily (Fam 5) (Eng)
I have a document that has all this for all the dogs. I also paid to have a pedigree of my Collie traced back to the Sunnybank dogs (Albert Peyson Terhunes dogs).
<------- GEEK!!
You and me both!!
I was very interested to see Frisky down as the sire of Nesting Topper. Our charts only show Topper as the head of the CHE line...
I have just written quite a lengthy post on the other thread, hoping to find some shared ancestors of our dogs. I just love PedigreeLines. I wish more recent UK dogs were on it as it's such a fantastic resource. I love the inbreeding is on there too. It is not currently something which we discuss much over here, but I think that will change in the not too distance future.
I also love looking at the pictures which show the development of the breed over the years.
I wonder if there is any other breed which has this degree of segregation of breeding between continents? Fascinating stuff
DogIsMyMantra
Forums Enthusiast
I finally got around to pulling out her pedigree to refresh my memory......
Bel has a bunch of Carmylie (obviously!)
Laureate
Macdega
Jade Mist
Simmore
Heatherland
Milesend (UK import)
Dundee
Seabury
Autumngold/Laureate
Bel has a bunch of Carmylie (obviously!)
Laureate
Macdega
Jade Mist
Simmore
Heatherland
Milesend (UK import)
Dundee
Seabury
Autumngold/Laureate