When are you spaying/neutering?

I have an open mind at this time on Cubby. He is 6.5 months and has humped Melli's head once. I shrieked and haven't seen that since. I literally have not decided IF or WHEN. IF he is mild mannered and delightful I may leave him alone. If he turns into a jerk and humps my foot and marks the walls I may go ahead. I am also waiting for a gap in dog school. Right now I am in sync with the scheduling and don't want him to miss anything. However, eventually we will be done or there will be a gap before a class and I might consider it. We are on a wait and see basis. I have never had a whole animal as they were all rescues (unless you go back to the breeding showcats) and I just haven't decided. It would be, though, anytime between late Jan to when he is 2 in May of 2016.

I find it fascinating that in Norway you don't spay/neuter and you have responsible owners. Hmmmm.
 
Mom2Melli said:
I find it fascinating that in Norway you don't spay/neuter and you have responsible owners. Hmmmm.
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Like I said, behaviour is expected to be trained. :wink2: You have to keep your dog under control, but as a responsible owner, you're already doing that. Unwanted sexual/hormonal behaviour is still just unwanted behaviour and is dealt with accordingly. It's all just part of what you signed up for when you went and got a dog. There are exceptions to the law, it has gotten much more accepted over the years, there's more debate about it (which I'm all pro) - but it's still generally one of those "only if strictly necessary" things. (Cats are another story, since they tend to be slightly harder to train, on that point our policies are the same as yours.)

Norway has it's fair share of accidental litters, but I don't think it's more than anywhere else. The people who aren't looking after their dogs are generally the same ones why wouldn't bother to whip out the cash to spay/neuter. To paint a picture, we have three adult intact males and one bitch within our nuclear family, and the dogs tend to get along slightly better than the people. :lol:
 
Sparta said:
Interesting to see people's opinions on this! As far as I know, Sparta isn't getting fixed. The laws on animal welfare are relatively strict when it comes to these things, and any surgery done on any animal must have a specific medical (or serious welfare-related) reason behind it. In other words, the idea is that surgery should benefit the animal (not the owner) and behaviour should be trained (not operated on). Most vets will still spay/neuter when asked, but in most cases it's technically illegal and the threshold is pretty high. So Sparta gets to keep her internal organs intact for now. :wink2:
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Yes, Europe has managed to have the right mentality about this. Stopping a dog from having sex is apparently too hard for many people here, so they push the routine removal of necessary hormones. It is a convenience surgery in most cases, but it's guised as "responsible ownership".

<flame suit on and ready!>
 
Please lets not derail the thread. It's providing useful information for the many people on the forum with puppies/young dogs.

I know desexing is a topic that's of interest to many people here (and one that's have lots of controversial discussion already), so if people would like to discuss the merits of Norway's approach open a new thread.
 
I completely agree with not neutering and just watching the dogs when one is in heat. That being said, when Honey was in heat last time, Ruutu wouldn't eat his food and lost 3-5 pounds during a month. He also thought every girl was in heat and wouldn't compete well in Agility for me for two months. He doesn't have 3-5 pounds to give on him as he's a lean 32 lbs. I'm still trying to get him up to 34 pounds. So, because of the not eating, we're going to neuter. The crying and playfulness doesn't bother me at all bc my parents have always had intact shelties since they used to breed. But, as my parents say, Ruutu's over height anyways so I wouldn't want to breed him.

I'm pretty sure Honey will be in heat again before he gets neutered so that could always change if he doesn't stop eating.
 
I will try to wait as long as possible, but if Flyer goes oversize then when the growth plates close will be fine. I hate it, but all my boy dogs have been fine the day after.
 
Of all my dogs Six went for the big snip when he was 4, I kept saying hes going to get better...he didnt. He was beyond a jerk when the girls are in season...like it was either his nuts or his life bad he was beyond obnoxious. Your puppy is just sounds like hes being a normal puppy. I would hold on until a year atleast.
 
What I would like to see . . . hard evidence on neutering (spaying could be presented separately) -- what is the incidence rate on intact dogs versus neutered dogs over a lifetime of sex organ-related diseases. I may have to hunt for this info. during some spare time.

Cubby, my oversize, long and rangy, old style, definitely pet quality, sheltie, will never breed. However, I would like to choose based on risks and benefits in general AND Cubby's own personal behavior AND a projection of if there are situations I forsee where he must be altered to participate in something we need him to do rather than the blind mantra of "Thou shalt alter any and all animals". I want to do what is best for Cubby to hopefully live those 17 years because we kinda like him. If the benefit and risk chart tips either way, I would like to consider that option.

All my other 5 past/present dogs have been rescues. Only one of those was unneutered before landing in the shelter system. Two of those I know were indeed used for breeding before landing in the shelter system.

I didn't mean to open a can of worms with Norway, I just find it interesting that a whole country leaves their animals intact and the animals are not all dropping dead of sex-organ related diseases. If another country's dogs can live intact responsibly, maybe my Cubby can, maybe it would be healthier.
 
mimiretz said:
we had Mecutio neutered at 3 months, so I was expecting my vet to say to neuter Oberon somewhere around that time. Instead, he said to wait until 6-9 months. He also said that if Oberon didn't exhibit any negative behaviors -- humping, trying to run away, etc -- to consider not neutering him at all. So I guess we'll just see how it goes and play it by ear.

The Sheltie I grew up with, Charlie, was never neutered. Other than occasionally humping a crossed leg, I don't remember him ever exhibiting any negative behaviors -- although truthfully since he was the only dog I had, I don't know if I'm the best judge of that.
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The vet I go to would second the notion of not neutering if no negative behaviors are exhibited. Looking back on it, I wouldn't have neutered Cookie. I neutered him at 6 months and that was only because he couldn't come to work with me (per corporate regulations) unless he was neutered.

The next male sheltie I get will not be neutered. Most of what was mentioned in the original post sounds like puppy behavior to me. And I'm sure I've said it before, but at my work, all the male dogs are neutered and 9 times out of 10 that does not stop them from a) humping b) nipping c) destructive behavior at home.
 
Mom2Melli said:
What I would like to see . . . hard evidence on neutering (spaying could be presented separately) -- what is the incidence rate on intact dogs versus neutered dogs over a lifetime of sex organ-related diseases. I may have to hunt for this info. during some spare time.

I didn't mean to open a can of worms with Norway, I just find it interesting that a whole country leaves their animals intact and the animals are not all dropping dead of sex-organ related diseases. If another country's dogs can live intact responsibly, maybe my Cubby can, maybe it would be healthier.
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I have posted research (a meta-analysis) by Dr Margaret V Root on several occasions re desexing and health - do a google search under her name and you should find it, it's got good information. You may also want to look into the recent academic research and debate in Norway.
 
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