Does anybody think Shelties are different in temperament than they used to be? I have only a small sampling to go by, and I may be the only one old enough to think this way, but I had a purebred Sheltie 40 years ago, and knew several others; they were not as skittish and sensitive as the ones I have and see today.
When Did Balance Become A Dirty Word
- Thread starter HopeShelties
- Start date
Does anybody think Shelties are different in temperament than they used to be? I have only a small sampling to go by, and I may be the only one old enough to think this way, but I had a purebred Sheltie 40 years ago, and knew several others; they were not as skittish and sensitive as the ones I have and see today.
Thanks--I've seen martingales mentioned here and elsewhere; I wasn't really sure what they were. Do your dogs wear them all the time, or just when out and about?
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
Why yes, she could win actually. Had I manhandled her, she would've shut down. This is definitely a dog who does better with positive. She is actually a very nice obedience dog. I just lack the desire to pursue it. My heart is in agility. When I finish her MACH2, and qualify for USDAA and AKC agility nationals, I will probably go to a trial or two and pursue the next obedience titles because there will be free time, but it isn't a big concern of mine right now.
I think in another thread someone from Australia was saying that Australian shelties aren't known for skittishness. I do think there are definite temperament issues with the breed in North America right now, and I think breeders (of all breeds) should be breeding for temperament just as much as they do conformation. I've heard that in some countries, in order to get their championship, dogs need a certain number of conformation points but also titles in two different dog sports. I wish they had that here.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
It has nothing to do with my preference.
Joe Q Public reading this forum will quickly come to the conclusion that people think choke chains are evil things wielded by uneducated, evil people. Then Joe Q Public reads your post about maybe martingales are only a "kinder" choke, with "kinder" in quotes, implying that you really don't think they are kinder.
So Joe Q Public goes out and buys a buckle collar for his/her Sheltie (because chokes and martingales are evil, remember? he read it here!) which his dog quickly slips and off it goes.
What I don't want to see happen is for perfectly good, useful collars to get lumped in with something that some people strongly oppose (for whatever reason). I'd rather see a dog on a choke being walked than slipping an ill-fitting buckle and getting hit by a car.
Jess041
Forums Enthusiast
I don't think choke chains are evil.. but I would still put a martingale in the category of a choke chain... because it still tightens on the neck. Just my two cents.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
Well yeah. And for this breed, we NEED something that tightens. Collies also need something that tightens. It's like trying to put a leash on a cone!
I don't know what others call them, but here in the southern U.S., they are routinely referred to as SLIP collars, not CHOKE collars.
In experienced hands, even a prong (or pinch) collar can be humanely used. Not to get too political, it's a little like blaming the gun for the fact that somebody used it.
This article caused me to engage in some serious thinking. I've started Bela on clicker training and targeting and she works beautifully with it, as little as I have taught her. But I can't see where the clicker will help with anything except the association of the click with a delayed reward.
I agree 100%. I just wish they weren't sold at pet stores for the average owner to buy. At the training facility I work at, whenever a prong is used, the owner gets a free, mandatory, 30 - 60 minute private lesson on how to introduce it to the dog and how to use it appropriately. We also are selective about which owners are allowed to use them (I've allowed 2 owners to use prongs in 5 years of coaching - I've removed them from probably 50+ dogs because they were either unnecessary or detrimental). If the owner or dog is temperamental or reactive, the prong is off limits.
Think of the "click" as a snapshot in time of the perfect behaviour. For example, if I want my dog to focus on me despite increasing distractions, I click when my dog makes eye contact. I gradually ramp up the level of distractions, until my dog can ignore everything going on around him (including people, dogs, treats, toys, loud noises, bouncing balls, vehicles, etc.) because he knows the behaviour I'm looking for. Clicker works because it tells you dog what you want, as opposed to what you don't want. Negatives (ie. don't pull, don't look at the other dog, don't jump on people) tend to be very difficult to understand, so clicker training identifies behaviours you want (walk beside my leg, focus on me, sit when people approach). As time goes by, you will be able to lose the clicker because the dog knows the expected behaviour. However, whenever I am doing any type of precision work or introducing a new trick, I always use the clicker because it's the fastest way of identifying a desired behaviour, and it makes training much faster.
If you're looking for a good resource who uses positive training, check out kikopup on Youtube. She's a great resource for people who don't have good trainers in their area or are unable to attend classes.