2nd Show!! With Videos!!

[Toffee's Mom]

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I guess I was surprised because last week he didn't really have any problems so I wasn't expecting it. I was worried about the teeter - which he was OK with!

I can see that the weaves probably requires the most concentration of all the obstacles and with all the distractions at a show it's a big ask for a novice dog.

There is ALWAYS something new to 'fix', lol don't you know?
I came out of a trial where all of a sudden I had a dog who would ROLL around in the tunnels and have a party in there, meanwhile was trying to get him out of there... he'd never done that before? lol

Those are really great runs, go give yourselves a break and remember this was only his second trial, lol. Main goal is have a good time and let the dog figure it out what the game is all about Last Judge I trialed under said in the starters class briefing:"You're lucky your dog comes into THIS environment and takes even one jump for you, be grateful, enjoy your dog. This is not practice, this is not a known environment for many of your dogs, so remember to have FUN"

As Dr. Shelli said it's a different environment and I find each venue brings new challenges and things to look at!

My instructor says takes a green dog about a year to weave in trials the same, confident fast way they weave at practice or at classes!
Definitely there is always a new combination of collection, too much handler focus/handler micro managing, energy and nerves on all sides for us all, especially in the beginning?
I like what hurtseverywhere suggested, I find that once you proofed the weaves it's great to do them in a fast sequence so they can 'see' the weaves before the tunnel and to collect into them... it's a experienced vs green dog thing, I think

 

[labgirl]

Lovely!

You did really well! Epic is still young and learning. Merlin is still hit and miss with his weaves, some days good, some days you would think we had never trained them! He has improved vastly over the last few months and I now feel more confident he will do them successfully.

I trained differently to you, but when he was going through a spell of popping out I would slow him down and use a command for each weave to ensure he got it correct. When you have to keep going back it confuses them, so I would rather go slow and get it right, then speed up again.

Also which side do you usually run the weaves on? I'm awkward as I like to run Merlin with me on his left side, so he turns into me to enter, but most people prefer running on the right as you were doing. It is easy to favour running one side and the dog then proves less confident and accurate when you are forced to running on the opposite side.

But you did really good! And he is so fast! In comparison Merlin looks so methodical and it is brilliant he did the contact equipment with no probs.

Looking forward to the next one!

 

[seashel]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your advice and encouragement! I'm not going to be practicing every day (although he screams with excitement when the poles come out) but I put him through 6/8/10 weaves yesterday in a quick session and he was pretty accurate even with distractions of other dogs and kids around.

Hurtseverywhere, that's a really great suggestion that I will certainly try once I've got him solid with an obstacle after the weaves but it will have to be a mini version as I don't have that many obstacles!

Toffee's Mom, You are so right! I was delighted he ran in such a different environment so well and after each run we had a frisbee frenzy outside! Even things like being able to queue with the other dogs are a big deal for him so there was so much to be pleased about.

Sophie, thank you for your lovely comments. I've realised I've got into the habit of calling him out of the weaves if he misses one and sending him back in and he seems to lose confidence quite quickly if I do this more than once or twice. Instead I'm going to allow him to complete them but just not reward and then try again but being really upbeat. That's what I did when he was learning the weaves so don't know why I stopped really.
I run both sides depending which side I'm sending him in from so don't really have any preference. At this show there wasn't room to run on the left so although it was a straight entry everyone had to handle from the left.

I'm looking forward to going to another show but this time it really will be September at least!

 

[SheltieChe]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your advice and encouragement! I'm not going to be practicing every day (although he screams with excitement when the poles come out) but I put him through 6/8/10 weaves yesterday in a quick session and he was pretty accurate even with distractions of other dogs and kids around.

Hurtseverywhere, that's a really great suggestion that I will certainly try once I've got him solid with an obstacle after the weaves but it will have to be a mini version as I don't have that many obstacles!

Toffee's Mom, You are so right! I was delighted he ran in such a different environment so well and after each run we had a frisbee frenzy outside! Even things like being able to queue with the other dogs are a big deal for him so there was so much to be pleased about.

Sophie, thank you for your lovely comments. I've realised I've got into the habit of calling him out of the weaves if he misses one and sending him back in and he seems to lose confidence quite quickly if I do this more than once or twice. Instead I'm going to allow him to complete them but just not reward and then try again but being really upbeat. That's what I did when he was learning the weaves so don't know why I stopped really.
I run both sides depending which side I'm sending him in from so don't really have any preference. At this show there wasn't room to run on the left so although it was a straight entry everyone had to handle from the left.

I'm looking forward to going to another show but this time it really will be September at least!

I will stop and call dog off weaves if mistake is made. Allowing dog to weave is to reinforce the mistake. This is one instance where I will stop. What you are describing sounds like your NRM is appear ¨harsh punishment¨to Epic. There are some games one can teach to make sure that NRM is viewed by dog as ¨try again, you are close¨ and not ¨oops , wrong again waaa¨ Try throwing a second choice toy and recalling him off it and play with his first choice toy when he returns as a separate game and then add your NRM oops or whatever you say...
Sophie, I would really NEVER slow dog down in the weaves. Thing is once you teach dog to be slow it is VERY hard to get it back to fast.

 

[seashel]

I will stop and call dog off weaves if mistake is made. Allowing dog to weave is to reinforce the mistake. This is one instance where I will stop.

When I thought a bit more about this I realised it wouldn't work because weaving is a behaviour chain and if I let him complete the chain he won't know where he went wrong or why no reward. As it's normally the third pole that is skipped if he carries on and does 4-12 right he will just get confused if no reward. Plus, as you say just doing the weaves is a reward in itself.

I'll try your NRM game suggestion too as that sounds like a good idea. Today I was just saying "hey let's try that again!" in an excited voice and it was a lot more positive than just calling him out.

 

[corbinam]

I'm behind in all the agiltiy videos, but finally got a chance to watch them today. For this being only Epic's second trial, I think you guys look awesome! I've seen dogs in trials for years that don't make such a valiant attempt at the weaves.

I'll second (third? fourth?) what several other people have said. I think that generalizing the weaves to a trial is more difficult than any other obstacle. There are a number of reasons why--flooring is different, attitudes are different, sounds are different, spacing could be different, speed is different, etc. I believe it is the hardest obstacle to train (the least "natural" of all obstacles), and therefore you'll see more setbacks here than anywhere else.

I remember when Lexi was young she could weave in the yard like a champ, and then we took the EXACT SAME POLES to our training field and it felt like we had to start over. Once we had that down, we started trialing and she really struggled (it was the same poles and the same field!) So don't be discouraged.

You're seeing weaving motion, and he is attempting the correct behavior which is really promising. Just work them a bit more at home, and really throw a party in trials if he does it correctly. I think really the best thing is more practice and more attempts. He will get there. This happens to almost every dog!

 

[seashel]

Thanks so much for your lovely comments! Being new to agility it's so great to have feedback like this because it's hard to know what is a potential problem and what is simply inexperience/training area.

I remember Epic did 12 weaves for the first time on 21st April (it was my Grandma's 99th birthday) so he's still very new to it really. Luckily he loves the weaves and so wasn't at all put off by what happened at the show which I was worried might happen. This week I've had a few short sessions on 6-10 poles and he seems to be a lot more confident on 10 than he was
last time I tried them at home so that's good. I think Sophie made a good point about preferred handling sides because although I send from both sides and run both sides I haven't done as much heading straight into the weaves from the front. So we're working at that.

What should you do if during a run you have an issue crop up like this? I felt he should complete the weaves correctly but the more I pulled him out when he made an error the less confident he became. On the last run I let him make the error but finish the weaves so he had some kind of positive outcome because I thought that was more important in that situation than forcing the issue. But I don't know if that was the right thing to do?

 

[Calliesmom]

What should you do if during a run you have an issue crop up like this? I felt he should complete the weaves correctly but the more I pulled him out when he made an error the less confident he became. On the last run I let him make the error but finish the weaves so he had some kind of positive outcome because I thought that was more important in that situation than forcing the issue. But I don't know if that was the right thing to do?

depends on the dog....
at the trial I was at last weekend, I had been talking to a handler and after their run, I asked about the weaves- he said the dog popped out and the dog apparently gets demotivated if the weaves are restarted so he just went on to the next obstacle.
I have restarted both Dix and Cran and they have seemed fine with it......

 

[corbinam]

What should you do if during a run you have an issue crop up like this? I felt he should complete the weaves correctly but the more I pulled him out when he made an error the less confident he became. On the last run I let him make the error but finish the weaves so he had some kind of positive outcome because I thought that was more important in that situation than forcing the issue. But I don't know if that was the right thing to do?

Totally agree with Denise on this one--it really depends on your dog. Some people find that their dogs worry or stress if they're asked to repeat an obstacle over and over. Some find that it slows their dogs down (demotivating, as Denise said).

Some people have really stubborn dogs who will do it wrong over and over and over and never care or try to make it right.

Some people have naughty dogs that just want to get through faster and should be made to perform it correctly, and not be allowed to go on (which is rewarding to them).

 

[Laddie's Mom]

Wow, that looks like fun, hopefully one day I will be able to do this with Laddie.