A dog who loves her job

Riley has been getting time outs as well in agility class. His are not due to performing equipment incorrectly, but due to his lack of focus. He also LOVES agility and running the obstacles (especially contacts) are the biggest reward for him. Unfortunately this means that he will run with me for a jump or two, then take off and do his own course. This occurs even if I am stopping to treat between every obstacle. Then he gets pissed that I am standing still and not playing with him, so he tells me off.

We now either put him in a covered crate (if indoors) or tie him to a hitch outside the ring away from me and everyone else for a "time out". It seems to be working, since after that he will pay attention and work with me in the ring.
 
Update

I guess it's time for me to respond to my own post :)

I really appreciate everyone chiming in, and I always enjoy hearing everyone elses' opinions.

Firstly, I'll report on what we decided to do. Rather than removing Lexi, we decided to use a different marker when Lexi made a mistake. We had been using "What happened?" in a somewhat friendly manner. We changed to saying a short, more negative noise, kinda like "unnh". Well, we tried it for one, quick session. It was terrible. I actually saw Lexi start to worry. My little, confident, crazy girl got worried. She hesitated at the weaves. She stopped mid entry and looked around. It was hard to watch. We immediately stopped.

Now, in response to everyones' posts...I don't think that a negative consequence for a behavior is always wrong. In fact, I think sometimes it is necessary, even in its most simplest of forms (I still mark it when Lexi does it wrong). But, you have to know your dog. And the best part is that you can decide what works for you. I tried something different, and it didn't work. So I'm trying something else. Clearly removing your dog is something that has worked for many people on here. And from those who mentioned it, it definitely doesn't seem to have negatively impacted them!

One thing that I do disagree with several other members here about is that every mistake the dog makes (or most of them) is always the handler's fault. Yes, I trained my dog. And yes, I made mistakes. And yes, the dog makes a good portion of their mistakes because of me. But, I also believe that my dogs makes his/her own mistakes. My dog should know to do things without my explicit instruction. My dogs have a responsibility to do the things that they know how to do. And yes, my dog knows how to get into the weaves. She just doesn't care about the details. So in this case, it's her fault.

It's true that somewhere down the line I allowed her to miss some details, or placed more emphasis on other things...but that doesn't mean that I didn't train them. I trained weaves. She learned weaves. I emphasized speed. But that doesn't mean that she's allowed to miss the weaves because she doesn't want to slow down. Partially my fault? Yes. My dogs' responsibility to complete? Yes.

To come back to the weaves, and detail work...right now if Lexi misses an entry, I mark it, and we try the sequence again. I reward Lexi close to my body right before the weaves (lined up so that if she continued she would get her entry). We then try the sequence again. I also try to do a better job of setting her line to help her. I'm not totally clear on our training plan, but I've already seen improvement doing this.
 
Happy to hear that you are making some progress! Still not clear why would you think your dog is responsible for his/ her mistakes...your dog is draftee, not the equal partner to upheld her end agility training...

this is from my favorite guru blog
"I am not suggesting that all dogs were born with the same amount of God given talent. I am saying that how we as dog owners respond to disappointments along the way play a massive roll in not only bringing out this dog’s true potential but also in how enjoyable the journey is for each of us along the way!"
here is to the joy in our training!:biggrin2:
My monkey Che "embarrassed me" today at the vet by getting into down and refusing to budge like a mule "I am not moving from this spot and you can't make me!" right after I told everyone how smart and well trained he is:lol:
I dropped the leash and left/ it was safe to do so/...
Eons ago I would have been frustrated to no end and demanded/ commanded/ cajoled/ begged... then I decided to embrace his feedback and learn from it... more fun that way:biggrin2:
 
It is their responsibility as once they know how to weave, and have been trained to hit the weaves in all scenarios, and fully understand that job, it is their responsibility to enter the weave poles correctly. Unless you go through your dogs whole career hand weaving, it is not your job to find and get through the weave poles. You can't do that for the dog... therefor, that part of the job is their responsibility.
Training and handling are the handlers responsibility. If a handler messes up on course, or fails to train entries, or contacts, or any other obstacle properly, that is their fault. If the dog is trained to something, and knows its job thoroughly (skills such as jumping, weaving) then the dog is responsible for keeping up bars and collecting to hit weave poles. Those are jobs a handler can not do for their dog on course. The dog must do them. That is why they are the dogs responsibility. The dog can then choose to listen, collect, and hit the entry, which when they know their job is what they should be doing (similarly, the dog is thoroughly trained to jump correctly, jump round, and understands collection and extension, and the cues that go with each, and then chooses to ignore the handler in favor of jumping flat and in extension f/t and knocks a bar), or they can just blast past them because they don't wish to have to slow down and collect to find the entry. It doesn't mean a person hasn't fully trained the weave poles because their dog suddenly starts choosing not to do something.
 
corbinam said:
I guess it's time for me to respond to my own post :)

I really appreciate everyone chiming in, and I always enjoy hearing everyone elses' opinions.

Firstly, I'll report on what we decided to do. Rather than removing Lexi, we decided to use a different marker when Lexi made a mistake. We had been using "What happened?" in a somewhat friendly manner. We changed to saying a short, more negative noise, kinda like "unnh". Well, we tried it for one, quick session. It was terrible. I actually saw Lexi start to worry. My little, confident, crazy girl got worried. She hesitated at the weaves. She stopped mid entry and looked around. It was hard to watch. We immediately stopped.

Now, in response to everyones' posts...I don't think that a negative consequence for a behavior is always wrong. In fact, I think sometimes it is necessary, even in its most simplest of forms (I still mark it when Lexi does it wrong). But, you have to know your dog. And the best part is that you can decide what works for you. I tried something different, and it didn't work. So I'm trying something else. Clearly removing your dog is something that has worked for many people on here. And from those who mentioned it, it definitely doesn't seem to have negatively impacted them!

One thing that I do disagree with several other members here about is that every mistake the dog makes (or most of them) is always the handler's fault. Yes, I trained my dog. And yes, I made mistakes. And yes, the dog makes a good portion of their mistakes because of me. But, I also believe that my dogs makes his/her own mistakes. My dog should know to do things without my explicit instruction. My dogs have a responsibility to do the things that they know how to do. And yes, my dog knows how to get into the weaves. She just doesn't care about the details. So in this case, it's her fault.

It's true that somewhere down the line I allowed her to miss some details, or placed more emphasis on other things...but that doesn't mean that I didn't train them. I trained weaves. She learned weaves. I emphasized speed. But that doesn't mean that she's allowed to miss the weaves because she doesn't want to slow down. Partially my fault? Yes. My dogs' responsibility to complete? Yes.

To come back to the weaves, and detail work...right now if Lexi misses an entry, I mark it, and we try the sequence again. I reward Lexi close to my body right before the weaves (lined up so that if she continued she would get her entry). We then try the sequence again. I also try to do a better job of setting her line to help her. I'm not totally clear on our training plan, but I've already seen improvement doing this.
Click to expand...

Don't forget she still is a baby green dog.It will all come together for you.Don't race her and see what happens.
 
Thanks, Stacey. You said a lot of what I meant to explain better! I'm certainly not suggesting that Lexi's mistakes are all hers. On the contrary, most are mine. But if I ask my dog to sit (which they know) and they don't do it, it is their mistake.


And Sharon, you're right. I often try to race Lexi, and I need to get out of that habit. Thanks for the reminder. And yes, Lexi is a baby dog! I tend to post on here about a lot of her mistakes (hey, I don't need help with things she's good at...:lol:), but I am very proud of my girl and her progress.
 
HopeShelties said:
The dog must do them. That is why they are the dogs responsibility. The dog can then choose to listen, collect, and hit the entry, which when they know their job is what they should be doing (similarly, the dog is thoroughly trained to jump correctly, jump round, and understands collection and extension, and the cues that go with each, and then chooses to ignore the handler in favor of jumping flat and in extension f/t and knocks a bar), or they can just blast past them because they don't wish to have to slow down and collect to find the entry. It doesn't mean a person hasn't fully trained the weave poles because their dog suddenly starts choosing not to do something.
Click to expand...
ok, I think I see where that slippery road of thinking starts.... So how and why dog dog will choose? Dogs do what is reinforcing for them. They are just not that complicated /sophisticated in their mind to decide "let me choose knock that bar or fail that entrance weave entry because my stinky owner failed to give me that piece of bacon I wanted so much"
Dog WILL choose not to sit or be a weave blitherer because it is MORE reinforcing to blow past the entry than to make a correct one, more reinforcing to watch that furry rat running that listen to Mama " sit" command but how is this dog's fault?
 
Because they are ignoring a command given to them which they have been trained to do. If my dog is fully trained to do something correctly, I expect that behavior to be performed.
With mine, I have manipulated the scenario to where it is no longer more rewarding to run past the weave poles. Problem solved.
 
Ashley,

Glad you were able to find a solution for Lexi. I know I tried the NRM with Koji on the 2o2o contacts. BIG mistake. I totally forgot what you went through with Lexi on that and yup, he started creeping. As soon as I figured out that I was training wrong, no more creeping. Although that is a common training error, sometimes it takes us, the handlers, to figure out what they respond to and don't respond to.

I'm glad you chose to stop as soon as you saw her shutting down. That's smart training on your end. I know for some dogs it works great, saying no, but then, I think those are also dogs that dont' shut down fast either.

Even with my own recent training, I see Koji shut down with a soft uh-uh when I'm training inside. But if he's outside and crazy, I have to yell a strong NO at him to get him to even pay attention. So, I have to be very wary of how strong I make my NRM. In trials though, I usually say, "what happened?" in a soft curious voice. Just to mark it.

Good luck with your training. As with all of agility, we learn more about our dogs and ourselves as training progresses (or breaks down). LOL.
 
HopeShelties said:
With mine, I have manipulated the scenario to where it is no longer more rewarding to run past the weave poles. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

an answer I wholeheartedly support. You remove/ control self reinfocement and manipulate the environment to build up tons of reinforcement for what you want. Makes total sense to me.
 
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