Aggression in my sheltie: Please help!

[Caro]

His reactions are common in adolescence, they tend to develop a closer bond with humans and become less interested in other dogs as they get older and he's still trying to work out his place in the world. I agree with everything Seashel, although I would actually recommend neutering. Trying to balance surging hormones with a developing brain, esp in a dog that lacks confidence, is extremely hard on the dog and many behaviourists will recommend you neuter him for this reason. After Tully was attacked I saw several behaviourists and was recommended to get her desexed (even tho she was a show dog). It made a huge difference not having to manage the hormones. It was also a lot safer because many dogs are not that tolerant of intact dogs or either sex.

It sounds like he has decided he needs to protect himself from other dogs, and being an adolescent his reactions are probably a bit over the top. Most dogs will understand that, but there is always a chance he will meet a dog that doesn't (esp if he is intact) so avoiding those situations is best. Atm I think you need to teach him you will take charge of these situations and he doesn't need to worry so much.

For the next two weeks as much as possible keep him on lead and when he starts growling at another dog walk in the opposite direction until he settles down. This will show him a) the growling in unacceptable, and b) you are taking charge and won't lead him into something that scares him.

You also need to work out his 'critical distance' - how far away from other dogs before he starts growling or barking and keep him at that distance until you are ready to move to the next stage. It could be a big distance too - it was for my female. Only very slowly reduce that distance with treats and play distractions.

At dog parks mst dogs are 'in your face' which is not a play style that sits as well with herding breeds. They prefer to work alongside other dogs. So a good approach is to find a walking companion for Asher, walking alongside another dog is far less threatening.

The tennis ball is a great distractor - you may find it more effective than treats (worked well for my female). If he looks like he is going to bark at someone pull the ball out and let him catch it a few times (you may need to teach him to catch) or just wave it around and play with him.

 

[AusnAsh]

Sorry. It looks like I made a rookie mistake and posted twice.

Thanks Mally'sMom! I think so too. I love him so much!

So he's still trying to figure out stuff. I was trying to figure out where he was developmentally since he's past the crucial socialization of 6 weeks to 6 months. Or so I've heard. I'll have to see my vet because I have no idea which would help him more. I guess it's more individual cases for neutering.

One thing that article said reiterated was that I need to watch Asher's reaction more so then scan for danger. Even subtle decisions like walking with me on the side of the "scary object" or turning away altogether will probably help.

I definitely agree about using the tennis ball as a motivator/award. Whenever I say "do you want it?", he perks up his ears and returns his attention to me. Is it hard to teach a dog to catch it in the air? Guess I won't know til I try. My plan as of right now includes taking more walks around somewhat busy areas but nothing overwhelming since I can't keep him couped up. He needs to be presented with opportunities that will set him up for success.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

Hi there, sorry I'm coming in late to the discussion
I have worked very hard with my dog reactive Sheltie, too! You got great advice and I agree with what Chris said, that's a very good approach.
Some dogs really don't want to be bothered by others, and neither should they be.
One of the things not yet mentioned is that whatever you do do NOT correct a snarl or any signal or body language your dog gives the other dog. That was one of my biggest mistakes I made, before I knew better. So Toffee was not able to express himself and his discomfort until he was into exploding stage! If he had been allowed to say, no thanks, buzz off to the rude dog, he wouldn't have become as reactive as he was.

We are now able to work in close quarters with other dogs and am able to redirect him very fast as I have become very good at reading his stress signals long BEFORE it turns into a lunge'n snarl I can reward him for being good and get distance if needed... He's doing well in agility and even walk through very close quarters with other dogs throwing themselves against their crates trying to get at him, he does NOT react, because I have rewarded him all the time now for not flying off the handle and for trusting me that nothing is going to get to him, they have to get through me first

 

[AusnAsh]

No worries! Anybody who has any information is a blessing to me. I agree completely! All of this information is more than I expected.

I've read a few articles about how you should not correct any warning behavior and I'm going to start implementing that in our training (I need the training just as much as he does haha if not more). Unfortunately, I've done it a few times, but hopefully it wasn't enough to stop showing those signs.

That's so encouraging to hear that Toffee is doing better. I hope that Asher and I will have a similar story. And I'm sorry for so many questions but I have a few more The breeder who I got Asher from just emailed me back (I voiced my concerns to her). She said that "the snapping in the air, is a play thing. His Aunt, cousins, Grandfather all did this. Not a biting issue". Somehow, I don't believe that it's a play initiative. She also said that he's just going through puberty -- which I agree with -- and that I should place him in an obedience class. Is this wise? I was thinking of asking the Humane Society that has that class if they can evaluate Asher before enrolling. If it benefits Asher, I definitely want to do it. Even if it is a bit expensive

 

[Caro]

Obedience class is a great idea. He will learn to focus on you while other dogs are around in a safe environment. He may be a little overwhelmed at the first class, but often you will find with so many dogs around he gives up on trying to react to all of them. I'd suggest making a visit there before you start classes to familiarise him when its a bit less stressful.

 

[AusnAsh]

Thanks Caro! I'll definitely sign him up after I take him there for an orientation. I definitely expect him to bark but I guess I shouldn't be embarrassed about that right? A lot of dogs do that

 

[seashel]

Lovely pictures of Asher, he is a handsome little chap

I hadn't read the article before but read it last night and thought it was brilliant! So many people with dogs (often gundog breeds for some reason) don't seem to have a clue that permitting their dog to come bounding over in the face of a strange dog it have never met is not always regarded as a friendly overture by the other dog and even if the dog is OK it can still be a nuisance/dangerous to the owner. (One of my elderly friends has been knocked over several times by bouncy dogs coming over to play/say hi to her Shih Tzu).

As far as neutering goes, it would be a good idea to get several opinions 'first hand' from people who have the chance to meet and assess Asher's behaviour as well, before making a desicion one way or the other. Perhaps you could try having the testosterone implant first to see what the effect would be as that at least is reversible.

I agree that obedience class would be an excellent start but do go along without him first to make sure that it will be suitable and that the other dogs there are under control. The very last thing you want is for him to be frightened there. If all goes well you might find there are some people attending class who live locally and might be able to come out with you for a walk every now and again. You might be surprised too about the barking. Epic is a pretty barky dog (mostly excitement rather than reactive) but he almost never barks at class unless I am doing an individual session with him before the others arrive.

If you do find barking (at the other dogs) is a problem then that is when to really use the distraction. I practice 'watch me' with Yogi (the reactive one) as well as quiet static stuff like sit down stand and he can (just about) control himself even when the others are doing retrive which makes him wild with excitement.

It's interesting that the breeder said the air snapping was a play thing. Oddly enough, that is also something Epic does and for a while I wasn't sure whether he was trying to initiate play or having a go. If playing he never draws up his lips though which he does if he isn't happy with another dog.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

oh absolutely should you take him to classes!! It serves as a great way to structure learning, socialization, impulse control and creating a bond with your dog. It's invaluable for you and the dog to learn AND I found that in many of the classes people can be a little more dog savvy, and your dog can meet appropriate dogs, in a safe manner. This way Asher will learn that there are dogs who are safe and not to be feared... Do not EVER let anybody put a choke chain or tell you to alpha roll the dog and show him who's the leader or any of that, it's scary how this has become so main stream, and is SO wrong! So that type of class is NOT of benefit to you or your dog.

Be aware there are a lot of incredibly horrible classes out there and NOT all are the same. You need a positive trainer (and make sure they are, and aren't just saying they are cuz it's become a buzz word for some outdated wannabe trainers) in your area, and I totally second the suggestion to go VISIT and observe a class or two first.
Some have shared some horror stories with us on here, about dogs allowed in your dog's space and all that! That is never acceptable, ever.. if you see this happening then run the other way.
I also do not go to dogparks anymore and I used to be a BIG fan, but it's simply not worth the damage just one or two encounter can bring! Nevermind the vet bills IF something goes wrong just once...
I went with Toffee to classes in agility and life skills classes and had told my Instructor (now my mentor and friend) that he was shy and she said okay we'll make sure he'll get lots of space. We never looked back since, we just started to compete a little... my success is always if he didn't lunge or snarl even once, nevermind what he does IN the agility ring, that's just gravy

Yes, he still hates puppies, really large and rude dogs, but I don't worry anymore. He's come a LONG way and now he's even able to share the car with his former arch enemy and that dog's new young German Shepherd brother!! Yes, reactivity is ALWAYS in back of my mind, and yes I am usually very aware of my surroundings on the lookout for strange or inappropriate dogs, but it's less and less stressful... So, trust me it DOES get much better, with help, your commitment and positive training!
Keep working on it, don't give up and keep reading up on all the good stuff that is out there, and ditch any dominance based trainer's advice, lol

It's always a work in progress but here is Toffee late fall at a disc dog trial, totally relaxed with a nutty and intense young nova scotia duck toller close by... he can tell her off if he wants to, lol... but they get rewarded for being calm on their mat... meanwhile just ahead crazy border collies are chasing a disc and barking for all they're worth lol
The other is T with a new buddy he had just met, a calm ole Husky mix whom he made friends with of his own accord.

 

[AusnAsh]

Thanks! I call him my "pretty blue boy" though tons of people think he's a girl at first glance. He does have a soft expression, but I just assume they haven't seen many shelties.

I thought so too about the article. It was so accurate and makes you think in a completely new way (at least for me it did). I'm the type of person who tries to find the faults in myself so this situation is forcing me to look at all angles. Today I hope to take Asher to a park that is supposed to have a few dogs but not many. My friend also told me that all of the people there have small dogs which would be a great start for Asher. And, if at any point he becomes uncomfortable, it's a big enough area that I can take him away. My fingers are crossed.

I definitely do need to watch out for those classes and trainers who practice the alpha theory. I'm on the same page with you guys about that. Dogs have been so domesticated that they aren't tamed wolves anymore. The alpha roll doesn't really work all too well, especially with Shelties who are so sensitive. Asher can tell if he needs to redirect his behavior just by the tone in my voice. This is extremely different from the dogs I've had in the past, stubborn toy dogs.

And Seashell, I've noticed that Shelties seem to play with their teeth. Asher lives with his brother, Bugsy and they have a lot of "play fights". I'm only just starting to tell the difference. They'll play wrestle and bite each others' ankles. Is this normal with a lot of Shelties? Or just two brothers fighting for dominance?

Thanks Toffee's Mom! That's so great to hear that it can be turned around. I'll do what you say and attend the class first. The only thing is that it might fill up but I'll take the chance. I don't want Asher to be too overwhelmed. I love the picture of Toffee and the Nova Scotia. Two beautiful dogs and so calm next to each other. That gives me so much hope!

 

[seashel]

Yes mine do that (play with their teeth) a lot. We call it 'mouth wrestling'. When I first saw this in earnest with my older dogs (when they were young) my heart was in my mouth, watching those flashing teeth inches from eyes but never was any damage done.
Revel my thirteen year old boy plays a lot like this with Epic, but as the top dog he always maintains the upper hand and won't let things get out of control. With younger dogs they can be like little children. Someone gets a bit rough and the other retaliates in kind, but even then it normally resolves very quickly in my experience if the dogs know each other well.

It's easy to get demoralised sometimes and forget what progress Epic has made so Toffee's Mom, it's very encouraging hearing Toffee's progress for me as well.