Aggression?

k9kreationz said:
Maybe I can come down and they can be each other's distraction. I know. we can all meet up and be each others distraction. ;) I hear ya on the cooperative distraction.

I always tell Koji, "stop being so rude". lol.
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Yes! That would be great! :)

We tell Bentley the same thing...we tell him he's being a jerk (in the most endearing of ways).

I've actually had a lady in the neighborhood pick up her dog when Bentley started barking and lunging...and her dog was a doberman!
 
I've been working on this leash reactivity towards dogs with Romeo for some time now and have had great success! We've been at it maybe some 9 months now? It all started when he was in adolescence. I read up craploads coz I didn't like how he was behaving. There are a number of possible reasons why a dog ends up behaving like this which I won't go into, but as someone else pointed out, it's so very common.

I found there are 2 ways to go about getting the dog to look at you automatically when it sees another dog - either reward the dog for looking at the other dog, or reward the dog for looking at you. Either way, the end result is the dog would rather look at you coz every time it does when a dog is near, it gets treats!

When I started, Romeo wouldn't hear a thing I said because his thinking brain just shut off when he sees another dog while on leash. It's important to train the dog when it is below threshold, that is, before it starts barking and going off like it's crazed. Once they cross this "line" their thinking brain shuts down and their reactive brain starts firing. It's hard to get through to a dog when it's in reactive brain mode. I read Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt which suggested, for barky dogs, using gummy treats that would prevent the dog from barking. Gummy treats are also more liquid and easy to dispense (high rate of reinforcement). So I used cream cheese, liquid cheese or liquified liver in a small squirty bottle. When I see a dog in the distance and Romeo first notices it too, I will start squirting stuff into his mouth and keep at it until the other dog passes. I try to stand where the distance between us and the other dog will be greatest.

I started off rewarding Romeo for looking at the other dog. After some weeks (or was it months? sigh) of feeding liquid treats continuously while looking at another dog, I moved to feeding small roasted meats or liver only when I get that head turn back to me. (He gets these treats only when we are outdoors and we work on this almost all the time we are outdoors). I clicker train so would click everytime Romeo looks at the other dog. I would do it in quick successions too. But you can always use a verbal marker like "Yes!" or "Good dog!" in place of a click.

This worked well and Romeo and gotten the hang of it but then I had gone and watched a Patricia Mcconnell DVD and she was using the rewarding for looking at you method with a "watch" cue. So I tried that too.

When I see a dog in the distance, I stop and ask for a Watch Me, and click/reward when Romeo looks at me. I will repeat this (watch, reward, watch, reward) until the other dog walks by. If necessary I will use the treat to lure his nose towards me. This is why the treat you use is important - it must be more valuable than anything else around the dog. Patricia Mcconnell suggested making lip smacking sounds or taking a step or two back if you want to redirect your dog's attention to you. Over time, decrease distance between your dog and the other dog.

Personally I don't insist that Romeo stares at me the WHOLE time the other dog walks by. Because of what I'd read from Control Unleashed, I ask for a Watch only after he looks back at the other dog. So it's Look At Dog, Watch, Reward, Look At Dog, Watch, Reward. I know he wants to look and I don't have any issues with him looking without reacting, so what's a small glimpse now and then?

I want to say tho' that before I got from tail high, on alert, barking and lunging and pulling at the leash towards the dog and looking all aggressive to TAIL DOWN!, RELAXED!!, looking at the passing dog then back at me, I shed tears and felt much frustration coz there were days it felt we'd gone nowhere with all that training. Now I'm happy to say he's good even if the dog is 1 meter away (if that dog is not reactive) and 2 meters away (if that dog is reactive also), but has some issues on his own turf (he's more reactive and quick to react when we walk in our neighbourhood but it's still under control).

This is one of those training things that take a whole lot of time and patience but when you start to see results, your heart fills with this incredible joy and satisfaction and pride that your dog is doing so well. I still feel it and it makes all the effort worthwhile! Hope this helps you.

Oh yes, I wanted to add that dogs with onleash reactivity may not have any issues at all with dogs offleash. And some dogs have onleash problems even if they have been heavily socialised. Such is the case with Romeo. Go figure!
 
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I agree with Justicemum - you really need to be proactive. As soon as you see another dog change direction before she starts the barking. You can treat but remember, shelties are smart and will work out the sequence of events - if I bark and carry on and then be quiet I get a treat, or basically, I see another dog and get a treat - and if I dont get a treat then I will bark and carry on. This is how my two work.

I had huge issues with Tully and her reaction to other dogs. The vet behaviourist said some of this reaction is territorial so to vary where we walk. For a while I had to drive to places to walk Tully (even if it was around the corner) as apparently it reduces territorial issues if they dont link it to home (mind you, Tully was really bad so you prob dont need to go to those lengths).

I recommend you get a gentle leader head collar - makes a huge difference to managing their behaviour and makes walks much less embarrassing.
 
Yep..I have one of those too...and he had started to go further and be a bit nasty...

I agree with Justice...this is exactly what we have done...and with practice and deligence (sp)...it works!!

You have to really get your timing down and be very aware of whats going on around you...constantly scanning for triggers...other dogs, people..or whatever sets your dog off.

After alot of work we can now have a dog come by and Clancy looks at the dog and then to us...gets his praise and occasionally a treat. Its not perfect because there are just some dogs he can't stop himself from reacting...I don't read doggy language good enough to know if the other dog is sending bad vibes or what...I do know that if Clancy is getting tired on a walk, he is more likely to react...he must get cranky or something...

keep working at it!!

Julie
Clancy & Abby
 
Caro, I'm thinking if you work the dog below threshold so it doesn't get to the barking stage when you treat, there won't be that kind of pattern that the dogs will latch on to (ie. bark then be quiet and get treat). Coz then it'd just be look at dog (without barking) and get a treat?
 
romeosangiovese said:
I've been working on this leash reactivity towards dogs with Romeo for some time now and have had great success! We've been at it maybe some 9 months now?
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I had forgotten you had issues with Romeo. I'm glad to hear it's been working. I admit, I don't want to have to carry food around, but honestly, if we plan on doing agility trials. I can't have my dog lunging and barking. Gawd that's so embarrassing. So, I will need to start working on this now. I hate that it wasn't an issue before, but is such a huge issue now. Seriously, I still blame daycare.

You said, liquid cheese. Were you using something like cheese whiz? Can you tell me what you've been using? I guess Koji will just get more pumpkin to offset all this junk I'm about to give him. lol. But you're right. I need WAY more higher value stuff than food or normal treats.

I've been working with him a bit, to at least look away from the dog when they pass by, and I'm grateful that he responds (typically I call his name, I wonder if this is a bad choice, and I should use another word), and I treat him as such. And keep treating until the dog passes. But yeah, I can see this will take a LONG time. I was working on this for 2 hours during agility practice and he never once got any better.

I will say one thing. I found something that works AWESOME!!!! I cover his eyes. LOL. Yup, at agility training, when a specific dog is running, Koji wants to chase. So, I cover his eyes during the run and not a peep. A specific dog walks by, cover his eyes. Obviously, this doesn't work when I'm walking him, but y'know, it's quite helpful in a pinch. Just something to think about if you need to use it. or if anyone needs to use it. I think Koji's issue is that he wants to play and be a part of the fun. He ABSOLUTELY HATES being left out of any fun. It's quite irritating. He doesnt' get that it's not all about him. Our trainer didn't call him Mr. President for nothing. lol.

Thanks for all this. I can see it's going to take awhile. But I'm also glad to hear Romeo has made a ton of progress. It gives me hope.

All in all. Koji has so many issues. Its truly hard to train them all. I get so overwhelmed by it all. This "aggression" issue just adds to the pile and it makes me so crazy. Especially since on the other hand, Miko is well, perfect. Doesn't lunge, bark, etc. Sigh. Koji is one hard dog, that's for sure. Makes me never want another one. But then, he gives me that sheltie look and I forget all his craziness.

Thanks for all the advice. I am making a shopping list of yummy treats. Once you tell me what you use, lol.
 
Again. Thanks everyone. I am seeing my own problem, which is that I feel overwhelmed. I have agility training to do (which I don't have time to do). I have to work on his recall, on his attention, on this barking/pulling/lunging issue. And yet, most of his issues stem from wanting to go play with other dogs. Or join in any fun. It's downright frustrating. If it happened all the time, I probably would have worked on it more. But the fact that it's not all the time, only in certain instances, only if he goes to daycare consistently, etc. What in the world! What changes him? What does daycare do to dogs? He's so much more assertive since having gone to daycare. And yet, is a chicken when it comes to other things. He's such a contradiction. I think that's why I get so crazy and frustrated. Then knowing there's so many things to work on. Yikes.

I think I need to create some sort of training schedule. Time for him to work for his food again. ;)
 
k9kreationz said:
Again. Thanks everyone. I am seeing my own problem, which is that I feel overwhelmed. I have agility training to do (which I don't have time to do). I have to work on his recall, on his attention, on this barking/pulling/lunging issue. And yet, most of his issues stem from wanting to go play with other dogs. Or join in any fun. It's downright frustrating. If it happened all the time, I probably would have worked on it more. But the fact that it's not all the time, only in certain instances, only if he goes to daycare consistently, etc. What in the world! What changes him? What does daycare do to dogs? He's so much more assertive since having gone to daycare. And yet, is a chicken when it comes to other things. He's such a contradiction. I think that's why I get so crazy and frustrated. Then knowing there's so many things to work on. Yikes.

I think I need to create some sort of training schedule. Time for him to work for his food again. ;)
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I totally understand your frustration. I'm going to be stating obedience school at the end of the month and I'm very afraid Bailey is going to be focused on playing with the other dogs instead of focusing on me. I ignored her poor leash manners for a while, because I didn't have time to work on her issue. I was more concerned with tiring her out during our morning walk, since I work all day.

I worked on her pulling a little bit today. I used a slice of turkey. Something she has never eaten before. She was so excited when it was in my hand. She walked by my side and wouldn't take her eyes off me. I'm going to continue using turkey. Maybe if I only use it for leash training, she will get the hang of it.
 
I am relived in a way to hear other people have exactly the same problem I do with Ellie. At least I know now that I am not alone! When we are walking, she goes completely nuts when she sees another dog. She acts like she is going to kill it and I thought it was aggression too. The only thing that made me change me mind was when I actually went to a dog park and I finally got the confidence to let her off-leash inside the enclosure after she met Wyatt (a Sheltie puppy from the forum) and was kind and gentle with him. She LOVES playing with the dogs and is always friendly to all of them. She is just excited to meet other dogs she sees and wants to play and is frustrated that she can't go meet them.

I do like others have suggested and I make Ellie sit and watch me and she gets treats if she looks at me and doesn't fixate on the other dog (or car!). It is a lot of work and gets frustrating to say the least that I just can't go on a nice, pleasant walk without having to constantly have her sit and treat her, etc., etc. etc.

I totally agree that other people think she is going to kill their dog given the chance. I used to think she would too! It is SOOOO embarassing! When walking the path to the dog park she will sometimes act like that and I am always saying, "She's really friendly, she's just excited!" And then allll look at me with that frozen smile and you can actually hear their thoughts, "Yeah, right. Freak!" LOL! :rolleyes2: :biggrin2:
 
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