Barking Sheltie on walks: what is your trick?

[Meldor]

It will get better with your consistency and patience, patience, patience!!! The one thing I want to stress the most is that you maintain all the calm you can muster! It is not easy, and I greatly improved at it too! It was very satisfyiing to get results. Good luck, I hope I have also helped.

Thanks a lot for your message, it gives me hope! I do get discouraged when she barks her head off at people around and I feel foolish trying to not say anything and stay calm. Your message helps me see that if I am consistent with doing this, it will get better with time .

And to everyone else that replied, thank you all for your great comments, suggestions and for sharing your own experiences! I will keep you updated on our progress.

Little note: we still have not decided if we want to go back to using the head collar... we'll see how we do this week before ordering a new one.

 

[Meldor]

update - sorry a bit long

Here is a little update:

On the positive side she is getting better at focusing on me with people at a good distance away.

On the negative side: in front of our condo she is barking every time I bring her out and that is even if no one is there. I think our front street is just too much for her to handle (it's a busy street with multiple 6 unit condos) but I need to take her out of the front door (our only exit) every time she needs to do her business... there is NO way around this. She just seems to be on such a high stress level and it makes me really sad.

But, I won't let this discourage me. I really want to do all that I can to help Kyara so I am getting equipped with information about reactive dogs.

I ordered the following books:

- "On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals" by Rugaas, Turid;
- "Scaredy Dog: Understanding and Rehabilitating Your Reactive Dog" by Brown, Ali;

I watched some videos on youtube more specifically ones addressing reactive dogs by Davidthedogtrainer.

And in order to get some specific training DVDs, I joined BowowFlix.com (which was discussed in this thread http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=10771) awesome tip by the way .

The first DVDs I will be getting are about BAT - Behavior Adjustment Training
from Grisha Stewart which I think might really help me.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these materials or suggestions of other useful books or dvds? Does anyone have any tips about addressing our front door issue?

I guess one thing I really need to do is ask people to come in a more quiet street or park to help out with the training. That way they could pass for strangers without being unpredictable like random people on the street and I could truly control the distance at which I want to practice with Kyara and eventually get them to leave treats for her, walk in certain directions... etc.

But I sort of feel that my friends are not enough into dog training and too busy for that to help me *sigh* and my family is way to familiar to Kyara so it wouldn't be as efficient as getting someone she knows less. Any suggestions on this?

Thanks again for your help!

P.s: I did get my boyfriend to film me walking Kyara and doing some training to evaluate what I can modify or what triggers her most. I plan on filming another walk in a few weeks to see the progress.

 

[BarbV]

I don't know these books, so I can't help you.

Whitney's advice of "watch-me" is great advice to try to hold back an already anxious dog, but I think you are looking for more proative measures.

I'm thinking back to our puppy school days and some of my dog walking experiences. Most (but not all) fellow dog-walkers will respond to your cues and are willing to help in training exercises because they know it will help in their own as well.

When walking pup, if you see a dog coming, I would put the dog into a sit. Then I would call ahead to the other dog owner: "We are training here. Can you help out? Please approach slowly and if possible put your dog in a "sit" in front of us."

If the owner agrees, try to get them to sit for 20 seconds while you chat about the weather, whatever. Then release the dogs and let them sniff each other out.

By the two owners approaching and conversing in a non-threatening manner, the dog gradually learns that other people and dogs are not bad, but that I must obey cues from my owner.

I hope I explained this properly to at least give you an idea as to the theory.

 

[Meldor]

Thank you Barb for the tip and for reading my post. It is greatly appreciated.

One thing with that though is that Kyara rarely react to other dogs.

The problem is really just human strangers.

And if someone is walking a dog, she does not react to them. It's as if she thinks well if that dog can trust that person, then I can trust them too. (She does not lunge or bark at them as long as they don't try to pet her).

Maybe practicing the exercise you just mentioned with dog-walkers would be the step before trying it with people without dogs since it remains below her threshold?

 

[Katherine]

The first DVDs I will be getting are about BAT - Behavior Adjustment Training from Grisha Stewart which I think might really help me.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these materials or suggestions of other useful books or dvds? Does anyone have any tips about addressing our front door issue?

BAT is a tool to add to others such as watch, look at that, UTurns…. I am a fan of BAT, have one of the DVDs, and like that it is happy / upbeat and not always dependent upon food. Grisha seems so relaxed / happy / playful in the BAT trials and I’ve tried to emulate this feeling. I am not doing formal set ups, which they recommend as being the best way to make progress. However, I do informal BAT work at parks and in retail store parking lots (particularly Petsmart !). Grocery store parking lots would be a great place for you to find a steady stream of people coming and going.

You might consider joining the BAT Yahoo Group : [email protected]. There are a lot of experienced people that describe their BAT trials / progress, as well as people new to it looking for assistance regarding their specific situations.

While you are waiting for your DVD to arrive, you can also find some BAT trial clips on YouTube.

Does anyone have any tips about addressing our front door issue?

I think that you've gotten some good suggestions. You might also try breaking down the issue into little pieces and working them separately. Perhaps practice your BAT technique inside, doing on leash approaches to a closed door, then turnarounds, rewarding with a treat or toy or running to get supper; then doing approaches with the door open; then stepping outside a few feet; and gradually increasing your distance outside.

The other book I really like is Patricia McConnells’ “Feisty Fido” --- short and practical.

P.s: I did get my boyfriend to film me walking Kyara and doing some training to evaluate what I can modify or what triggers her most. I plan on filming another walk in a few weeks to see the progress.

Great idea to watch re-runs of both the dog and yourself !

 

[SheltieChe]

Gelntle Leader has been our salvation in high stress areas, cuts time spend looking at distraction. Great tool.
So you have problems with front door. What will your pup do there? Will she sit? Will she take food?
I will start with calm walk out of the door- sit in front of the door, door opens, release cue " go" or whatever you use, play highly for coming to your leg area as opposed to lunging out of the door. Go all the way out on treats even if you have to buy raw steak and cut up in pieces. Cut up raw chicken necks work wonders for attention getting, proven
Increase your rate of reinforcement when you get out of the door- feed her near your leg, as much as you need to keep her near you as opposed to lunging or barking. Even if you have to put her kibble breakfast in your pocket and go out of the door, do it for couple of weeks.
Go to the mall, sit on a bench near exit of the big store and ask anyone who pays slightest attention to you to please give her treats.
Get a long spoon and peanut butter jar, put it on the bench, when people walk out of the store, give her a lick. Specially effective peanut butter on the roof of their mouth- keeps them occupied a lot longer
above all keep the leash loose!
http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/33/97/

 

[Meldor]

Thank you so much everyone for your awesome replies! Lots and lots of useful info to work with.

Here's an update on our progress:

- Front door:
We are doing very well with this thanks to.. peanut butter! When I open the door, she takes a quick glimpse outside but turns back to me right away with a strong focus waiting to get a lick of the wooden spoon full of peanut butter. Quite some progress from lunging or barking every time I opened the door (even if no-one was outside!). We practiced repeatedly going in and out of the door at various times of the day and it really really helps!

- When we cross strangers on our walks:
She is still barking and lunging when we see strangers but it definitely is getting easier to stop the panic attack and distract her from what she is seeing.

- On the other hand, all the work I am doing is helping in other areas!
I treat like crazy now on walks, very close to my leg and her loose leash is getting great. I also use the clicker to mark the right spot. With a simple kissing sound from me she knows to return to her place on a great loose leash. Still need to call her often but I can see that she remains on a loose leash for more and more steps.
Also, she is doing terrific in her agility training. Seems like we are communicating better than ever.


Otherwise, I read Scaredy dog!, started watching the BAT seminar, been reading up on [email protected]. (thank you Katherine) and the one thing I am realizing is: I need need need to do set-ups. It will be the best way to progress. Eventually, after a few controlled set-ups I will then be able to practice in non formal sessions in parking lots and pet smarts and all that.

Now just need to get a person she doesn't know to stand in a park for about 45 minutes a couple of times a week while I work with her... mmmm lol. Just a matter of asking in the right place and having the guts to ask even though it might feel silly. (like BarbV suggested, I'll approach other dog walkers or people on a facebook group about dog things to do in my city).

Thanks everyone!

 

[Toffee's Mom]

.....

I'm not sure though if we'll be able to obtain results with this for when our next door neighbor (his front door is like 3 feet from ours) comes in and out of his condo. This apparently is Kyara's worst nightmare and I am not sure if we'll ever get a good watch me command if he comes out of there. I guess we just need to practice, practice and we'll see.

P.s: one of the worst things I find is when strangers want to come and pet her even though she's barking her head off and I tell them she is scared of strangers but they keep on trying to talk to her and pet her... thinking they'll manage to calm her down. *Sigh* guess I need to be more affirmative and tell them not to look at her or pay attention to her.

Good luck, I haven't mastered that either, and I just manage it with the neighbour, lol. HE is so upset that Toffee barks at him WITHOUT fail everytime, after three years! lol
SO what I mean by manage is that I just call him off and redirecting him back to me, I don't bother with anything else, lol

Same problem I have like you with people, I SWEAR they don't take no for an answer, unknowing dog lovers are the worst and they should know better... hahahhaa... As a few of us say: my Sheltie is more of a cat person, aka just ignore and they will come to you! LOL

I have stopped trying to correct Toffee, because at first I did and it made it even worse, because it meant strangers=corrections... oh the slippery slope when you condition your dog and never even knew it.. that is why I am so much on the soap box about positive reinforcement only training since about a year! I messed up the first couple!!!

 

[take4roll10]

Good luck, I haven't mastered that either, and I just manage it with the neighbour, lol. HE is so upset that Toffee barks at him WITHOUT fail everytime, after three years! lol
SO what I mean by manage is that I just call him off and redirecting him back to me, I don't bother with anything else, lol

I'm still trying to manage Bailey and my neighbors. I trained her to run and lay on her bed when I say "bed". Only issue with this is she barks while laying down on the bed. I tried putting her in a sit/stay or playing with her for 5 minutes when my neighbor is going in or out. That seemed the help, except the second I stopped playing with her or release her from her stay, she runs straight for the door and barks. She never forgets! Sigh...

 

[Meldor]

Ahaha! Yeah for the neighbor I think it will be some managing for now. Even the peanut butter is insufficient in that case lol. The other day I saw him before Kyara did so I fed her a big mouthful and even then she managed to produce a very funny growl and muffled barking. At least it wasn't as loud as usual!