Brindle & Other Non-Standard Colors

[JLSOhio51]

...So there is once case that I know of where a dilute black dog (without tan, if I remember) was registered and finished it's championship. It was probably registered as a bi-black, and the judges chose to award it points without regard to the color fault. AKC doesn't check color registrations, and the competition is based on the judges knowledge of the standard.

Thank you for that follow up. The picture is coming clearer for me. There are two things that surfaced in this thread that I find important. One (at least in my interpretation of the events) is that many of us are a bit cavalier with the words we toss around (which isn't a problem if the knowledge and skill level of all is equal). If you say to me, "blues aren't real", I read "blues aren't real." What is really being said is, "blue like in this or that breed aren't real (in Shelties) but Sheltie blues are OK". When you toss in the fact that Sheltie Blues aren't really blue anyway, the confusion generated by this type of conversation is magnified for us newbies.

Two. Your reference to the AKC solidifies in my mind (which is admittedly biased on my part) that whatever they have been in the past, the primary goal of the AKC now is to grow the AKC, not primarily the betterment of dog stuff. As an aside, I was recently engaged in a 21 day conversation with the AKC that was totally inane and fruitless. For those "Seinfeld" fans in the audience you will understand the reference when I say that it was a 21 day conversation "about nothing". Anyway, your response helped clear things up a bit.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

is that many of us are a bit cavalier with the words we toss around

Each breed has their own lexicon to describe color, and there is no real standard, which can be problematic.

• Red is common amongst breeds (we don't have red in Shelties), and I think there are several different genes that cause it
• Blue can be dilute black, or a slate blue
• Chocolate is brown, or dilute red, or liver, depending on the breed (we don't have it in Shelties)
• Lilac is dilute brown (in Border Collies, in Poodles they call it "Cafe Au Lait")
• Sable is generally what we refer to as "brown". This gene also can cause tan points.
• Then there is solid black (or dominant black, someone claimed one of those in a Sheltie here once), this gene causes brindle too. Shelties are set to the recessive version of this, which means Brindle doesn't just "pop up"

THEN you add merle, white factoring, Piebald, etc.

THEN you make up names that mean nothing outside your own breed

 

[Tabitha]

Then learn Standard Poodle and Labrador Retriever inheritance.

Then you can tell me what I "should" know.

You read my post completely wrong. I was not insulting you (or not intentionally). I was saying that you should know better IF you thought dogs like blue merles were likely not pure shelties. I also said that I must be reading it wrong because I knew you wouldn't think that. I already said I was wrong, I didn't know that these other colors were so uncommon or impossible in shelties (when I was mistaking one color for another), I can't know everything, but I don't want to be afraid of offending someone every time I ask a question.

 

[Tagg]

I don't deal in colour genetics but I do remember that when I asked the geneticist why my son had red hair when I have light brown ( was quite blonde until I was 12) and his dad had black hair he explained that my son's red was the result of an incomplete dominance. I expect, therefore, that this can happen in all species of animal which would be why we get odd colours in wildlife. Thankfully, the two breeds I was involved with were either white (westies) or black (Belgians). Hat's off to those of you that breed these dogs and get it right!