ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
So this begs the question of where the dominant black came from to begin with?
Color Riddle
- Thread starter Justicemom
- Start date
So... I feel like I was close for someone who knows next to nothing about genes!! Of COURSE I meant 'black dominant' by 'extremely dark.'
Perhaps this came from some of the Border Collie breeding early on?
Thanks to Dr. Shelli for this fun, mind bending riddle. And a super thanks for not making us wait too long.
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
That is the question. I thought the whole situation was weird. There have been other reports of sheltie showing the dominant black, I guess. I am not a breed historian so I go by what others have told me.
So the gene , in my mind, is either a throwback to a foundation breed hidden along the way masked as a black or it is from a mutation of the ky to Kb. It can happen to the merle gene M to mutate back to the non merle m. So you see a black dog born of a double merle/black breeding. M is consider a more fragile gene more prone to such events though. I tend to lean towards the mutation route as that is alot of generations for a dominant gene to stay hidden. The whole white doberman mess occured from a single mutation in one bitch. But who knows.
Emmasmom
Forums Sage
Genetics can really mess us up can't they? I think the whole study of genetics is interesting, whether human or animal. I have a nephew diagnosed a year ago with Duchenne MD. Mom not a carrier by genetics testing. Dad not a carrier by history. Just a "spontaneous mutation". Guess it happens in the animal world as well.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
Now I'm going to have to go and ask Kim. : )
Merling is not a binary gene (meaning on or off), it's kind of a scale. I've heard of black dogs bred to blue and producing double merles as well as black from blue to blue.
So I wonder how long you can hide dominant black... or if you can hide it. Darn it, now I have to know, and will get nothing done today.
Merling is not a binary gene (meaning on or off), it's kind of a scale. I've heard of black dogs bred to blue and producing double merles as well as black from blue to blue.
So I wonder how long you can hide dominant black... or if you can hide it. Darn it, now I have to know, and will get nothing done today.
Now I'm going to have to go and ask Kim. : )
Merling is not a binary gene (meaning on or off), it's kind of a scale. I've heard of black dogs bred to blue and producing double merles as well as black from blue to blue.
So I wonder how long you can hide dominant black... or if you can hide it. Darn it, now I have to know, and will get nothing done today.
Let us know what you find out, so I can get something done today!
How far back was the dominant black in the pedigree Shelli?? Was it one or 2 gen back? Or further???
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
As far as I have been able to find out, there are no known cases of dominant black in pure-bred Shelties.
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/colorgen.html
I REALLY need to work, but I will investigate the above site later to see if I can educate myself on the subject. Especially the E gene....
I REALLY need to work, but I will investigate the above site later to see if I can educate myself on the subject. Especially the E gene....
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
Let us know what you find out, so I can get something done today!
How far back was the dominant black in the pedigree Shelli?? Was it one or 2 gen back? Or further???
I really don't know further then the bitch and her mom. Like I said she looked like a purebred sheltie, her siblings that I've seen looked purebred, her puppies looked purebred and I have no reason to doubt the pedigree. They are very typey dogs. I suppose something could have jumped in unknown at some point. I don't really know. All I know is that was the conclusion of the genetic testing. The K loci is relavitely new in study. One thing I do know about genetics and genes is when you say something can never happen that is the time it does.
I have another friend that had to DNA test a litter because 2 sires were used, on purpose. One puppy matched one sire exactly except at one site. That one site did not match either male, it did match the female. Where did the gene come from? Mutation most likely.
Yep...CJ and Edan at the Bath star....so that's why I said Miss Clairol...joking that hair color was used to dye the black puppy brown...JK.