Confusion choosing puppy ~ Bad habits or just puppy behavior?

Dominance and Alpha are very confusing terms in the doggy world, and to be honest I would want to meet the pups face to face to understand them better, as terms like that can have so many connotations.

Girl dogs can be bossy, that's natural (I'm a girl, I'm bossy too:winkgrin:) I've met quite a few and I think that is a very female trait, but to be honest it doesn't mean its a problem as long as you don't encourage it or let it happen without correction.

It is a very rare dog that is born dog-aggressive, it is a completely unproductive trait for a pack animal. Dogs become dog aggressive for a variety of reasons, the most common being a lack of or negative socialisation. As long as you introduce your pup to friendly, gentle dogs aggression should not be an issue. Some dogs can be pushy and as an owner you may have to say enough when she gets too much, but then we all have to do that when our dogs get too much.

The term 'dominant' or alpha' tends to make people think they will have a dog that challenges them and that is why I don't like the terms because they are very misleading. New research shows that dogs do not show 'dominance' to us, as such. That being said a determined dog will try to push his or her luck, but don't think because this girl is pushy she will push you around.

As long as you have limits and you are consistent in letting her know right from wrong, it won't matter.

I think of my two, I met Cadbury at 3 weeks old. There were 5 pups in the litter and he and his brother pushed their way towards me and barged each other out of the way to see who would get their first. I picked the pup that won! Mainly, I wanted a confident dog, and yes Cadbury is pushy and he does like things his way - but he is NOT a dominant dog in any shape or form. He is very placid and loves other dogs.

When Merlin came home, however, I knew I was going to have to set new ground rules else Cadbury would (in certain situations) push him around. This is mainly over food and toys. Since having Merlin I have really enforced the fact to Cadbury that HE DOES NOT ever touch Merlin's food while Merlin is eating. In fact I stand and supervise meal times. Once both dogs are finished I give them permission to check out each other's empty bowls. Another example is toys - Cadbury will steal another dog's toys (pushy behaviour again), if he tries that on Merlin he gets told off, is commanded to drop and then the toy is returned to Merlin.

So pushy need not mean 'bad' or 'difficult'. As for the barker, well probably that one will be vocal, but that being said Merlin was a quiet little angel for the first week and then this noisy monster appeared! I'll take him to watch the agility display team practice tonight and he will bark his head off at me when I leave him on the fence to help set up - temper, temper:biggrin2:
 
Hi Lisa,

Welcome to the Forum!

I'm really glad that you're doing your homework and thinking long and hard about which puppy may be right for you. That's wonderful, and it sets you on the right track for success with your new friend.

Here are some thoughts on these two puppies:

1. The Barker: Shelties do tend to be "barky" dogs. That's how they are. It is true that if the puppy seems very vocal as a baby at the breeder's, it's likely that she'll continue to be vocal all her life.

On the other hand, Shelties who live by themselves tend to be quieter than Shelties who live in pairs or groups. This doesn't mean that a lone Sheltie will be mute... but it's a possibility that she might be a little quieter. Then again, she might not!

2. The Alpha Bitch-in-Training: Shelties are not dog-aggressive dogs. There is no room for dog aggression in this breed, and if either of the puppies' parents are truly dog-aggressive, I'd advise you to run in the opposite direction and tell the breeder why. All of our Shelties - intact males, intact females - run together as a group with no aggression issues.

However, there's a HUGE difference between dog-aggression and being bossy. Bossy means being the first puppy to the side of the pen, the first puppy to the food-pan, the first puppy through the door, giving the other puppies a shove. This is totally normal, especially in females, and it means that she's likely going to grow up to have a high opinion of herself.

Now, don't worry that this means she's going to boss you around! Shelties are not a high-dominance breed. The alpha bitches rule the roost, but that's only among the other dogs - we've had a very excellent boss bitches at our house, and they keep order and lay down the law while being the humans' right-hand girl. So: your little alpha female puppy may have a swagger in her stride and look down her nose at your friends' dog, but she isn't going to scheme to take over your family or eat your friend's dog. That's just not how Shelties are.

I'm sure that there are some Shelties who do have aggression/dominance issues... but this puppy just sounds like a perfectly normal bossy little girl.

I think tofu pup put it perfectly.

As far as barkers and 'dominant' pups, my Ginny was definitely the most vocal and the most bossy, and still is. She barks when she's excited and still pushes my other two around (She has no concept of personal space and all the toys belong to her :lol:). She's still pretty self centered and I found that she was a little more difficult to train when she was a pup (probably because she was more inclined to bond with our other sheltie than us), but our hard work paid off. But that being said, she has NEVER shown any dog or people aggression, is only bossy with the other dogs in the house and has been certified as a therapy dog. She is very well behaved and a joy to have around.
 
I got my boy when he was 7 months old (he's now nearly 5). The only two dogs left from his litter were him and his sister. He was a snugglely little bugger who glued himself to me from moment one. He's a friendly dog who sometimes pushes his limits but knows we are in charge and listens well.

We were lucky enough to bring his litter sister home last year at 3.5 years old. She's definitely "in charge" and walks/stands like she's the Queen B. She is NOT, however, aggressive, dominant, etc. She's just the bitch and rules the roost over her brother.

Its funny to watch them interact at times because they will shove each other out of the way and paybacks do happen between them. They have never fought beyond some snarling and grumbling at one another.

Before we had our Shelties we actually had two bitches in the house - a Finnish Spits and Malamute Mix. The Finkie was the diva but the Malamute was the top bitch. Neither dog was aggressive or dominate - confident, yes, aggressive/dominate, no.

As others have said, a confident animal can be a handful at times because they will push to see what they can get away with. Calm, consistent, correction, and rewards when they are doing things correctly - which is often forgotten outside of actual training, is the key to success with ANY dog.
 
hmm given the choice id rather have the bossy alpha one than the barky one! Generally I find the bossy one to be very confident in themselves, and I prefer them slightly naughty as well:smile2:

My bossy one came out of the crate after a cross country 13 hour flight at 10 weeks old and ruled the house...She still does, even being the smallest she still rules with an iron paw! Everything she sees if she wants is hers! Now at times she was trying to train because she knows what she wants and wants it her way, but honestly I can bring her and put her in any situation and I know she will not freak out like some of my other ones.
 
Thanks to all :) Decision made.

Hello Everyone,

I appreciate all of the replies and read them all carefully.

With a lot of thought, bouncing scenarios around and weighing out the good and bad... I decided that maybe neither one of the girls is the best choice for me.

I live in a town house and I know my neighbors would not like to listen to barking so I can't take that chance. I do know that dogs bark, but I don't want to knowingly get one that has a barking issue.

I think the description was hit it on the head with the female being bossy not aggressive. I don't feel being the novice that I am with never having a sheltie before it is a good idea to get a puppy that could be more of a challenge for me.

I am so glad I posted and asked.

My search continues and I will find the right puppy. I really wish I could find some local to interact with the puppies and we could choose each other. Most reputable breeders want what is best for their puppies and are honest with temperament, activity levels and personalities of their puppies. I have to wait until the right puppy speaks to me. Even if it is in pictures.

This forum is a jewel. I can't share my appreciation enough for all of the feedback. Thank you, thank you!

Lisa
 
Some great information here. My two cents:

- Puppy personalities change a lot as they get older. It also depends on the socialization you give them. My first Sheltie wasn't 100% socialized but Buffy was and it has been a huge difference. Abby was much shyer and while I'd rather have that than the reverse, I think she might have done better at a quieter house. Buffy on the other hand is perfectly matched with us.

- In this last one Buffy was the "playful" one and the other puppy we considered was more calm and cuddly. Buffy has turned out to be calm and cuddly about 75% of the time so who can tell?

- My breeder mentioned that a lot of people make semi-incorrect personality judgments after just being there 10–15 minutes or so. If you stay for an hour or two you will observe a larger variety of behaviors and personality traits. For example, you may think a puppy is calm just because she just woke up from a nap. Puppies are like babies—they go through periods of activity and calm rapidly, and they tire easily at a young age.

- Talk to the breeder. She is probably the best one to match you up with the right puppy. With our breeder it's her husband that gently "steers" buyers in the right direction. :wink2:

- You can read up on temperament tests online. Ask the breeder if you can try a few of these, within reason, remembering to be gentle with all the puppies. Also pay attention to mom's temperament and the temperament of the breeder's other dogs.

- Dogs who are barky in groups aren't always barky alone. Abby is the perfect example of this. She competed with other dogs by dancing and doing tricks and barking, but by herself she was an angel.

- Listen to your gut. Look at the pictures again and sleep on it. Good luck!
 
- My breeder mentioned that a lot of people make semi-incorrect personality judgments after just being there 10–15 minutes or so. If you stay for an hour or two you will observe a larger variety of behaviors and personality traits. For example, you may think a puppy is calm just because she just woke up from a nap. Puppies are like babies—they go through periods of activity and calm rapidly, and they tire easily at a young age.

I'll second this. I know you want to pick your puppy by seeing which one "speaks" to you when you visit, but I would encourage you to include your breeder as much as possible in the matchmaking. H/she's known these puppies from day one (and before! :wink2:) and knows them inside and out.

Good luck and happy hunting!
 
All this alpha crud is very misleading. What it sounds like is she is the most confident of the pups in the litter, it definately doesnt mean she will be aggressive or she will try to 'dominate' you. She is likely to be easier to train but she may need more stimulation or kept more active, and females do seem to be that little bit smarter and a lot more high energy. Of course there is no guarantee she will stay confident - it really is up to you to shape her. Shelties are a very maleable breed.

Barkers are a hard one to pick. My bad barker was silent for the first 6mths.

Best bet is to think about what you specifically want in personality. For example, do you want an active dog or a laid back one?
 
I'll second this. I know you want to pick your puppy by seeing which one "speaks" to you when you visit, but I would encourage you to include your breeder as much as possible in the matchmaking. H/she's known these puppies from day one (and before! :wink2:) and knows them inside and out.

Good luck and happy hunting!

I agree- and you have to meet the puppies and spend time with them. Sandstorm was 4 1/2 months old when we met him, on two occasions, and spent about an hour and a 1/2 total time with him and the breeder, who, by that time knew him very well! And she was right- he barks, but she said not as much as some other shelties she has had. He also needed to be with a family and not with her 8 other dogs! Right again. He is content just to hang out with us.
The only thing she didn't mention was that Sandstorm is an alpha dog who needed to be put in his place!!! A couple of inches bigger than his littermates too, which we did know. He barks and growls at the TV, and his tail is hardly ever low!! :lol:
All dogs take time to train, you just need to be willing to find that time-it is worth it. I love shelties!!
 
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