Desperate for help.

PreciousSheltie said:
Best advice, walk away when you feel overwhelmed. Or you know what, incorporate your daughter to help you with training. That'll help make it fun. Make her do something and you click and your daughter can treat or something. Just make it fun.
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Yes, very imortant! I've found first hand that overwhelmed, frustrated feelings only confuse sensitive dogs and make training harder. Leading to even more frustration.

Forget about training right now (except for maybe house training). Work with your pup in 5 min. increments, just hand feeding, stroking, playing when he's willing, etc. As soon as you find yourself feeling frustrated, walk away.
 
For right now, do on leash recalls. Don't use the word come unless you can be sure your dog is going to come... otherwise, what are you teaching? The dog so far doesn't have to come when you ask him to come.
Put him on a long leash, run away the other way to the end of the leash, ask your puppy to come (this is when you can use come, as you can make sure the dog comes), get excited, and throw a party with lots of praise, and cookies when he comes. If he doesn't come, just reel him in, and praise him for coming. Coming has to be something the dog wants to do, and at first, they often need rewarding, and the leash reeling to understand what you want.
You can progress to restrained recalls with a partner... works really well in a hallway. One of you hold the puppy on leash, the other run away calling the puppy and acting crazy to get the puppy good and excited, then the person holding the puppy lets (what is hopefully by then a really excited puppy) go and the puppy runs to you for more partying of praise and cookies. Make it a game. Keep it fun. Keep the puppy happy. Keep it short and sweet. If the puppy doesn't come, the person holding the puppy can walk him part of the way down to the other, or you can come in closer. You can even employ your daughter in the restrained recall since he already is bonded to her.
I would also step up the value of the reward. Make the salmon treat recipe on this site, or get hot dogs, or zukes (salmon variety is good and smelly), or natural balance rolled dog food which is referred to by many as puppy crack. The zukes are already tiny, and natural balance rolls, and hot dogs can be cut up tiny.
I do agree with others that it sounds like the puppy is shutting down. Keep everything positive. Don't give any negative reinforcement right now... no tapping his butt. Make it all fun right now, and ignore any failure. Your puppy is already showing stress from failure. It doesn't sound like the puppy completely understands sit is even an expected behavior yet. Go back to feeding and lots of praise for doing what you asked. Until he is more confident, you need to keep your criteria low. Don't have expectations of where your dog should be by when. Dogs progress at different rates.
 
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Dogs by nature are social creatures so the fact that yours prefers to be in another room and isn't learning makes me wonder if he's sick or in pain. Has the vet really checked him over and done blood work?

Agree that if you're frustrated with him he is sensing it and shutting down. Poor guy is probably just as frustrated with his situation...one that he has no control over.

Our Zoey is now 2.5 years old and she's been a handful. Got her at 8 weeks and noticed immediately that she was different than any other we've had. We consulted with a behaviorist, which helped a bit, but mostly switched from focusing on what she wasn't doing, or doing right, to baby steps and building her confidence. Not every dog is perfect (or close to it) and it's not fair to compare him to others you've had. (That's where we went wrong initially.)

I'm happy to say that our bond with Zoey is much stronger now. We're happier, she's happier. We found a sport (agility) for her and our other Sheltie Bentley that is fun, keeps them engaged with us, and is strengthening our bond with them.

If you do decide you're not up to the challenge, please don't give him back to the breeder. Who knows what will happen to the poor pup. Instead please consider a Sheltie rescue.
 
As a breeder, I have to disagree. Please do contact your pups breeder first. A good breeder cares about the puppies they produce, and will take them back at any time, work with them, and find the right home for them.
 
I think you should contact the breeder. Maybe he/she would have some insight on what the problem could be. For example, maybe he was the only puppy in his litter and missed out on some developmental stage that other puppies learn from having litter mates.
 
hiya,
this may sound way dumb, but it worked for a sheltie i had, that sounds like your sheltie.
if you feed dry food, have the pup eat out of your hand. cup your hand and put the food there. get down to pup's level, like sit on the floor.
i hope this might help some
 
If you are still willing to work with the puppy, I would suggest try a greater variety of food. Though my puppy isn't unresponsive but he is a bit slow in catching some of the things I'm teaching him. After training him with a variety of food, I found bacon got him working instantaneously. All the tricks just click as soon as the bacon is out. I don't use bacon often nowadays, unless is a trick we've been working on for 3+ weeks and he just doesn't get it.
As for the come command, Mozart was more like selectively not responding in the beginning. Since there's so many people in my household, he's attention is always wandering. I did some research on the internet to find ways to make puppies come immediately. The trainer said some puppies have trouble responding to come because they don't understand the command. So he recommended to put the puppy on a long leash (mine was 15') let the puppy wander off or you walk away. Call the puppy to come and at the same time start "reeling" the puppy towards you. Praise the puppy and reward. Repeat a couple of times and slower your "reeling in". After a couple of sessions, the puppy should associate the come command with walking towards you. If the puppy stops or pauses too long go back to the call & reel in until he start doing the coming on his own.
 
Sometimes you have to look at things differently when dealing with an issue. By now the use of the word "come" for bringing him to you is a "poisoned" cue and you will have to find a different word. You have to decide whether you want true operant conditioning to be the way you train or traditional. They don't mesh. One allows the dog to make decisions and the other is forced. It's really hard not to revert to old ways but I am starting to see a lot of headway in both Tinsel's thinking and mine. This dog, a recent adult male puppymill rescue was totally shut down and still has a long way to go but the only way I will reach him is to give him the freedom of choice and thought. I also have to think about every step of every lesson - not easy but rewarding when we get a baby step of success. It has now been drilled into my head not to try to lure him to come to me but instead to reward any and all forward movement. When I started it meant as little as an ear flick in my direction. He may be smarter than you think and put together things like - person comes towards me, I am picked up regardless of were I go to avoid it. This could have started from the time he was born at his breeder's house and he is now avoiding you. Try carrying his breakfast with you instead of putting it in a bowl. Everytime he approaches you give his a piece. Don't call him, just wait for him to make a consious thought to be with you. Feed him his entire breakfast this way for a week and see if it helps. Make sure you don't stay in one spot the whole time. Move around, when he gets close to you give him food.
 
I would start with handfeeding and keeping the pup on a slightly longer leash tethered to you. I'd forget formal training and just play! Get the interest, build the bond, before starting on training other behaviours.

I would definitely check with the breeder to see if this is something that has happened with other pups she has had (maybe a peculiar trait? or maybe even something that happens with all her pups!).
 
in completely agree with 'Tagg'
You have to choose between shaping instead of luring... never mind tapping of the butt, reeling him towards you, as previously recommended or any type of a negative marker even. It's really tough, I know:( Also try to make it playtime instead of training time, hand-feeding and definitely different treats and toys as playtime... I recommend dehydrated liver or tiny pieces of cheese... (I used dehydrated tripe for training something new, but wouldn't want you to have to go through that smell, if not needed, LOLLL)

Also could it be you were so used to training the other Sheltie and the Border Collie, you may have gone too fast and skipped steps with this little guy?

I agree relationship building if you want to keep the pup is a must, I hope you can enjoy the dog and that it's not a case of you just can't relate. I hope you guys can work it out :yes:
 
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