Diet advice

EJHUNTL said:
It's the latter - you want your dog to come, or sit, or whatever you tell it to do no matter what else is going on out there...
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Thanks. That is what I assumed, but I am quickly learning to never assume anything dog related anymore. Particularly with training, there seems to be multiple terms that actually mean the same thing but people who are deovtees of "so and so's" training methods use different terms as well slang and colloquialisms, it leaves one's head spinning trying to keep up. :yes:
 
I meant specifically the portions of dog class where they had to recall through a mine field of toys or had to sit/down stay while we all walked around squeaking toys or even tossing them over their heads. More practice WITH distractions, actually.

Yes, a puzzle toy is more pushing around than play, but I think it would be a really big issue. Shay would have it figured out before she realized she had to DO something with it, she would see him get a treat where she didn't, and she would kill him.
 
And the feeding frenzy started again ... ugh. Yesterday, she was horrible at feedings, coming out of the bathroom and full on attacking Shay, even when he was sitting UP on a couch next to Dad. She just was turning on him all day beating him up for walking into the kitchen, meals, everything. She barked all day at everything and nothing. She got snarky when I went to brush her. Really really nasty little girl. She is spayed, just a side note. Last night after my husband witnessed it the second time in the day he went and got a huge scoop of food, took her in the bathroom, and fed her a huge meal. He said fat and sluggish fine -- beating up Shay NO WAY.

Can I teach her to walk on a treadmill for exercise rather than reducing her diet? This is where I hate living in mountains. There's no place safe to walk, even our driveway as we had a lion come on it and spray the side of the house by the fountain. Any other ideas? She wants to eat 2 cups of TOTW food a day. Period. No faking out with veges no cutting down on this amount or we all pay for it. Go back to this amount, she is the sweetest dog as happy and wiggly as they come.
 
I'm sorry you are still seeing her get nasty over food. I hate to say it, but I think it should be treated as a behavior issue now, not a food issue. She is now getting what she wants (more food) when she acts in an unacceptable way.

I'm not sure what the solution is--but I wouldn't treat the cause as her being hungry. I would teach her other outlets. Maybe she goes right outside to play after she eats, maybe for a walk. Maybe you take some of her kibble out and when you let her out you immediately yeah her some tricks and reward with kibble. I would not allow her access to Shay after they eat.
 
She gets no reward for the behavior at time. She gets no more food right after her action, she gets no other rewarding activity, she gets no attention in fact Shay gets attention for her actions not her. Not sure she can make the link that if she acts this way all day eventually I increase her meal. I think she just gets nasty-tempered when hungry.

If I give her kibble and tons of veges it still is not the same as a larger amount of kibble. Bite for bite and piece for piece she eats the same down the throat and filling the tummy. I am not sure why veges don't stick the same way as kibble in overall hunger appeasing.

No matter what I try to compensate with from leashing to separating to short time apart to long time apart to placing him out of access on top of something, she keeps figuring thing out and doing this if she is hungry. If she is fed well, she gets along with the cats and dog nicely.

She is just nasty on a diet.
 
Here are some of the things I have tried:

Shay gets 2/3 cup x 3 a day, and Melody gets 1/3 cup x 3 a day of TOTW Bison.

At first they ate across from each other in our very large kitchen. They would finish, cross and inspect each other's bowl and we would go out to potty right out the back door in the kitchen. Then she started turning on him after she looked in his dish.

I tried picking up the dishes. She still turned on him.

I leashed her while eating. She would just stand and watch him finish. I would unclip her and we would go out.

Then she got progresively more hysterical on leash and he would gulp food. To keep her calm I would distract her with a command like down or sit or come around or something and have treats and train until he finished. Then we would go potty.

Started going after him again so I fed her in the bathroom. That was OK at first til she started going after him when I opened the door. I put him on the couch which she can't jump onto and he would stay until she got over the frenzy and we would go out.

She would work herself into a frenzy while I prepared the meal so I put her on a down stay in our kitchen while I prepare the food. Keeps her lower key and quiet. He does a sit stay nearby but not on the rug with her.

I have fed a variety of veges along with the kibble. That worked for awhile until yesterday when she just got really ugly again as I descibed. We fed her and she is again behaving happily.

I am just baffled at a way to come up with a system that will stay successful. The lower kibble and a lot of veges was really making an impact on her weight.

Oddly . . . the cats have food/litter behind a baby gate they crawl under. It really is high enough she could crawl under. She has never gone for their food even though I have seen her contemplate the gap a bit. I do get the sense she was free-fed in her former home and this meal thing is just not her desire. Obviously with 3 cats & 2 dogs I can't just free feed.

Any and all ideas are appreciated. This baffles me how to compensate and how to keep her from killing us all. She just gets so nasty unless she has literally as much food as the other dog.
 
I have no idea how to offer help, but as I am trying to learn from your experiences, a couple of the things you said have me a bit confused:

Mom2Melli said:
... (1) Started going after him again so I fed her in the bathroom. That was OK at first til she started going after him when I opened the door...
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then later:​

Mom2Melli said:
... (2) She just gets so nasty unless she has literally as much food as the other dog.
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If you are now feeding one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom it would seem that she has no way of knowing that she is not getting "literally as much food as the other dog" if she truly can notice the difference. That makes the comment that an earlier poster made about her activity being perhaps behavioral rather than just food driven somewhat more likely. Or am I reading your narrative incorrectly?
 
Very clever catch. Yes, across the kitchen she actually saw him still eating while she finished first and if I give them a chew treat and he eats his longer than hers (such as his is large and hers is a medium and so it lasts longer for him) she comes unhinged and if he gets two treats and she gets one she goes bonkers. Yes, true. She is in direct visualization of the finishing rate.

However, this quote
She just gets so nasty unless she has literally as much food as the other dog.
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-- actually stemmed from the fact that she is snarky unless she gets HIS scooper of food which is 2/3 c per serving rather than HER scooper of food which is 1/3 c per serving. More clearly stated it is "she is quite nasty unless she receives the same amount as (rather than as much as) the other dog" or even more objectively by volume "she is just nasty unless she receives 2/3 c rather than 1/3 c per serving which happens to be the same amount as the shepherd eats per meal".

On the other hand, who knows, she may be able to hear from the bathroom to the kitchen which is just on the other side of the wall whether he is still clinking kibble in the bowl after she has finished! I wouldn't put it past her at all!

It is definitely food driven. If there is no food involved or if she receives 2/3+ c per meal, she is perfectly civil to people, dog, cats and is a happy thing with no violent tendencies.
 
Your post is timely because I on the same path myself.

If I had my choice it would be a high protein, low fat, grain free diet. It's not just about reducing your current feed....it depends on what you feed and how efficient the diet is. That much I know.

Wellness Core Reduced Fat came to the top op my list. Recommended feed for my dog was less than 2 cups day. Then I compared to other weight loss programs e,g, NB Fat Dog, almost 1.5 times the amount of food. But the cal/per cup is less with NB than Wellness but you feed more. Grr! How do you figure it out?

I'm very poop conscious, so I know that the more fillers, the less efficient the food and the more poop you are going to get. :gaah
 
Maybe Melody would like that. Put a lot of bites in the tummy for less calories. TOTW works SO well for the shepherd and since I fear bloat more than life itself I don't want to mess with that boy in the least. She just needs to feel full and I will have to do what it takes to achieve that.

I am going to give it another go. I will try halfway between 1/3 and 2/3 c per meal with 50/50 with vegies. That's a lot to go in the tummy and maybe that will satisfy her. I found salt-free vege all (checked, no onions and only veges on the approved for dog lists I found online) so that may help. Low prep for me. Has potato too rather than just vegies.

I swear, this little princes is the most high-maintenance little thing. If she is full, we have no issues. She just doesn't do well on diets which is probably why she came to me at almost 40 pounds.
 
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