the Brat theory, I DO love it
Caro I love you, you're my new hero
!! I think I agreed with everything you said.
Dominance and Dog Training
- Thread starter Toffee's Mom
- Start date
Caro I love you, you're my new hero
!! I think I agreed with everything you said.
Calliesmom
Moderator
Caro I love you, you're my new hero
me too
MoonshineDad
Forums Enthusiast
Caro I love you, you're my new hero
I have to second this statement. I agree very much that they are so very far removed from wolves that trying to teach them to be a wolf is the equivalent of trying to teach a human to be a gorilla.
As an elective for engineering I was required to take an anthropology/philosophy class. And the class that I took was also taken by a lot of pre-vet majors because it dealt with evolution for both humans and domestic animals.
It had absolutely nothing to do with electircal engineering, but I learned alot about dogs and people! I really liked one portion of a lecture that the prof spoke on. She spoke on how closely we are genetically related to Bonobos and why it is taboo for us to show them on television or talk much about them in lower level education. They are so violent and sexual in nature that many people wouldn't be able to handle it. Yet that is the closest relative to us!
She then spoke on how genetically related the dog is to the wolf, yet how far pyschologically it has evolved from it. She said the dog is the second most domesticated creature only to us. So that drove out any alpha theories for me, although I never really bought much into those theories in the first place.
Ainsley's mom
Forums Enthusiast
Found this in this month's AKC newsletter
Regarding dominance, training and behavior "experts" often cite dominance as a cause of everything from aggression to pulling on leash. To be blunt, this is nonsense. Don't take just our word for it, though. The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) is so concerned about the misapplication of "dominance" that it has issued a "Position Statement on the Use of Dominance Theory in Behavior Modification of Animals." The paper points out that most dog behaviors that cause problems have nothing to do with dominance – rather, they're unruly behaviors that have been unintentionally rewarded, while the "right" behaviors haven't been taught. As for aggression, the position paper states flatly: "The most common cause of aggression in dogs is fear."
Regarding dominance, training and behavior "experts" often cite dominance as a cause of everything from aggression to pulling on leash. To be blunt, this is nonsense. Don't take just our word for it, though. The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) is so concerned about the misapplication of "dominance" that it has issued a "Position Statement on the Use of Dominance Theory in Behavior Modification of Animals." The paper points out that most dog behaviors that cause problems have nothing to do with dominance – rather, they're unruly behaviors that have been unintentionally rewarded, while the "right" behaviors haven't been taught. As for aggression, the position paper states flatly: "The most common cause of aggression in dogs is fear."
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
That's a pretty strong statement considering coming fromt he AKC!
Wish it would get out more into mainstream
Wish it would get out more into mainstream
Caro
Moderator
Whoa, thats kind of scary being related to something so violent - lucky defence lawyers haven't got their hands on that info otherwise it would be a new claim in courts - the Bonobo in me made me do it!
I like that AKC statement - definately a shame it doesnt get a wider audience. I've given up posting on a purebred dog forum because I get shouted down for disagreeing with dominance theories.
Maybe we should start championing the 'Brat Theory of Dog Behaviour', it has a nice ring to it!
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
Good for the AKC.
My dogs have a pack order within themselves and they also have a pack order when together with Rachel's dogs. If someone were asked to pick out the top dog, 9 out 10 times they would be wrong. Justice is the top dog. But he is the sweetest, most compliant yes man to all humans. He rarely growls or acts out unless one of the other boys does something really stupid. The girls push him around and walk all over him. But if he truely wants something, he gets it and it takes no more than a look. No one challenges him. Certainly not the picture of the dominant dog trying to take over the world.
Dr Ian Dunbar, based on observation studies, says that most problems are caused by insercure middle ranking dogs. The alpha dog is a cool costumer. He is in charge and knows it. He doesn't need to prove it. Not what alot of so called experts would have you believe.
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romeosangiovese
Forums Enthusiast
Yes he said this at a seminar I was watching on DVD and that makes a lot of sense. The lower ranking dogs differ to the alpha without being told. He also mentioned that rank typically correlates with age. How true is this? Can anyone with multiple dogs share their experience?
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
Justice is my oldest dog. Diva is the youngest and lowest ranking. However, she has been in close regular contact with 3 dogs that were younger than her, 2 females and 1 males and she defers to them all. She doesn't like to cause waves. But ,its weird she is not a lowly worm, still a confident dog. Sometimes I don't think she is defering but ignoring. She'll turn her back to them but then continuing playing with her toy or doing whatever she was doing. The younger female dogs mount and hump her and she lets them and just walks away playing with her toy. Not worried at all. The younger dogs seem frustrated with her. The older dogs, she definitely defers too. So I'm wondering if it will change when she gets older.
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