Ellie Does Rally! Long Post, lol!

[Lahree]

I always heel with the leash in my left hand with my hand straight down. Only time I don't is the moving stand in utility. Then I hold my hand at my waist as hand movement will tell them to stop and that hard to do with your hand at your side.

I have never heard of the leash in the right hand as you described. Too strange. I do hold the leash in the right hand when starting my puppies so I can show them with a lure in the left. But lures should be faded at the first sign of understanding or you become dependent on it and the dog never learns to think. Sounds like Ellie is beyond that. If you watch Porter's video. Rachel lures Porter for the totally new things but for the sit which he knows, she just tells him ,no luring. If Ellie has not been lured ever I can see the problem, her whole picture has been changed.

I wish I was there so I could help you. For this week, just teach Ellie to follow the treat as you move it about when she is not lunging for it and following it ,say yes and give it to her. I'll see if I can get Rachel to show you will Porter tom night. Don't hestitate to tell her to do the things she knows you shouldn't need to lure those things. Practice will make it easier and less foreign.

Also it doesn't matter what you call any command as long as you use the same all the time. I taught Justice "heel" for the left finish, my friends say swing. I was told when I was training Ember I should said swing like I'm supposed not heel because that is what I say when I heeling. I said whatever, heel means be at my side whether I'm moving or standing. I'll never remember swing so I not changing. Worked out ok I think, Justice is a mutliple venue, multiple HIT/HC dog and so is Ember.

In formal obedience and or rally competition, is there a rule you have to have the leash in your right hand?

We have only used a lure for Ellie when she is just learning how to do something. The lure is taken away once she learns it. She gets a treat at the end of a training session or at the end of a walk or if she does something spectacular on the walk--like not reacting to a car or not reacting to a dog, etc. She acted so nervous and goofy tonight that I think the instructor forgot how good and smart she was last week. Ellie didn't pay much attention to me tonight at all so I guess the instructor wanted to use the lure to make her interested in watching me. If it had been up to me, I would have just used some gentle leash guidance along with my voice to let her know what I wanted. But you see, I know my dog, Ellie is SO smart that she quickly figured out tonight that she just wouldn't do anything unless there was a treat involved. That's why when we started to work on practice drills after her two week boot camp she was trained without treats DURING the drills. She got treats after. She got TONS of verbal praise and physical pats and voice praise and she learned to work for that. I know I said this before, but she got totally confused tonight. Constantly feeding her treats and using treats for lures for things she knows how to do in her sleep is NOT the way to work with my waaaaaaaaaaaay too smart Sheltie.

 

[Justicemom]

In formal obedience and or rally competition, is there a rule you have to have the leash in your right hand?

Nope you can hold the leash in just your left, just your right or both hands. The only requirement is that it is loose. Most judges consider a tight leash anything the snap goes up from the J position. I only hold the leash in my left hand when showing.

We have only used a lure for Ellie when she is just learning how to do something. The lure is taken away once she learns it. She gets a treat at the end of a training session or at the end of a walk or if she does something spectacular on the walk--like not reacting to a car or not reacting to a dog, etc. She acted so nervous and goofy tonight that I think the instructor forgot how good and smart she was last week. Ellie didn't pay much attention to me tonight at all so I guess the instructor wanted to use the lure to make her interested in watching me. If it had been up to me, I would have just used some gentle leash guidance along with my voice to let her know what I wanted. But you see, I know my dog, Ellie is SO smart that she quickly figured out tonight that she just wouldn't do anything unless there was a treat involved. That's why when we started to work on practice drills after her two week boot camp she was trained without treats DURING the drills. She got treats after. She got TONS of verbal praise and physical pats and voice praise and she learned to work for that. I know I said this before, but she got totally confused tonight. Constantly feeding her treats and using treats for lures for things she knows how to do in her sleep is NOT the way to work with my waaaaaaaaaaaay too smart Sheltie.

Oh OK I'm getting the picture now. See that actually made it worse for you because then Ellie really didn't need to pay attention to you because you where luring her to do things she knew and she could focus else where and then get rewarded for that. Nope not good for her. Yep work her like you know how.

 

[Chris]

However, if I wasn't entered I wouldn't go across town to watch even utility. Agility,yes, I would.

My family says going to watch Rally is like watching paint dry!

Lahree, if Beckon can do Rally, Ellie can, too! He's a fear-bluffing idiot, but in the Rally ring, he's Mr. I'm So Cool!

 

[Diana]

I just want to say I'm so glad you and Ellie are doing this. Hopefully you have gotten over the worst of her training issues, but I think it's good that you two are working through this next step together.

Your experience in the second class is exactly why I didn't continue with agility. I can't stand it when other "students" tell you what to do when they don't know you or your dog. You're not paying for their advice and you've probably done way more training with Ellie than they've ever done with their dogs. You know what works and what doesn't with your dog. They don't have Shelties, and certainly not Shelties like Ellie. I am confident that you know what is best for your dog.

Anyway, good luck, and don't give up! Next week will be better. In every class I've taken with Buffy there's at least one week where she totally checks out. Then I get frustrated and she picks up on it, so the whole class goes downhill for us. It sounds like Ellie had that week last week.

A few things you can do to get the pendulum swinging in your direction: Exercise her first and get her crazies out beforehand. Show up to class early so she can get in the mindset. Hold dinner and feed it during class. Review in short sessions throughout the week. Talk to the instructor before class or via email to share your concerns or confusions.

Remember that you are doing this for fun and not trying to compete with any of them. They may be in it for competitive Rally or whatever.... that's not why you're there. So it doesn't matter if Ellie isn't perfect. Just try to have fun with her.

 

[Lahree]

Nope you can hold the leash in just your left, just your right or both hands. The only requirement is that it is loose. Most judges consider a tight leash anything the snap goes up from the J position. I only hold the leash in my left hand when showing.



Oh OK I'm getting the picture now. See that actually made it worse for you because then Ellie really didn't need to pay attention to you because you where luring her to do things she knew and she could focus else where and then get rewarded for that. Nope not good for her. Yep work her like you know how.

YES! That was the exact problem!!

 

[Lahree]

My family says going to watch Rally is like watching paint dry!

Lahree, if Beckon can do Rally, Ellie can, too! He's a fear-bluffing idiot, but in the Rally ring, he's Mr. I'm So Cool!

I am sure watching paint dry would be a bit more intertaining than watching rally, lol!

Well, Ellie had fun the first class (and so did I) but the second class.........

 

[Lahree]

I just want to say I'm so glad you and Ellie are doing this. Hopefully you have gotten over the worst of her training issues, but I think it's good that you two are working through this next step together.

Your experience in the second class is exactly why I didn't continue with agility. I can't stand it when other "students" tell you what to do when they don't know you or your dog. You're not paying for their advice and you've probably done way more training with Ellie than they've ever done with their dogs. You know what works and what doesn't with your dog. They don't have Shelties, and certainly not Shelties like Ellie. I am confident that you know what is best for your dog.

Anyway, good luck, and don't give up! Next week will be better. In every class I've taken with Buffy there's at least one week where she totally checks out. Then I get frustrated and she picks up on it, so the whole class goes downhill for us. It sounds like Ellie had that week last week.

A few things you can do to get the pendulum swinging in your direction: Exercise her first and get her crazies out beforehand. Show up to class early so she can get in the mindset. Hold dinner and feed it during class. Review in short sessions throughout the week. Talk to the instructor before class or via email to share your concerns or confusions.

Remember that you are doing this for fun and not trying to compete with any of them. They may be in it for competitive Rally or whatever.... that's not why you're there. So it doesn't matter if Ellie isn't perfect. Just try to have fun with her.

I could just HUG you! I LOVE THIS FORUM AND THE PEOPLE IN IT!! Your post is a perfect example of how the people here totally GET me! THANK YOU!

 

[corbinam]

I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience in your second class. Shelli gave a lot of good advice about how to handle it.

The one thing I wanted to say, coming from an instructor's perspective, is try to be really communicative with the instructor. Maybe beforehand next week let her know that Ellie didn't like working near the rottweiler, and you would feel more comfortable working near XXX or, working a couple steps behind everyone else.

Also, if she starts to insist that you do something a certain way, let her know that you are confident that Ellie can do it a different way. I might say something like "do you mind if I try it this way, and if it doesn't work then I'll try it your way?" Coming from an instructor, there are many people who insist on doing it their way, and it doesn't work and it becomes frustrating. Obviously that is not the case with you since it DOES work for you, but maybe she doesn't think it will. Prove her wrong!

Hang in there.

 

[Lahree]

I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience in your second class. Shelli gave a lot of good advice about how to handle it.

The one thing I wanted to say, coming from an instructor's perspective, is try to be really communicative with the instructor. Maybe beforehand next week let her know that Ellie didn't like working near the rottweiler, and you would feel more comfortable working near XXX or, working a couple steps behind everyone else.

Also, if she starts to insist that you do something a certain way, let her know that you are confident that Ellie can do it a different way. I might say something like "do you mind if I try it this way, and if it doesn't work then I'll try it your way?" Coming from an instructor, there are many people who insist on doing it their way, and it doesn't work and it becomes frustrating. Obviously that is not the case with you since it DOES work for you, but maybe she doesn't think it will. Prove her wrong!

Hang in there.

Excellent suggestions! Thank you so much!