Going to Scout Out a Class Tonight

SheltieChe said:
Sounds like quite a bit from my recallers class with Susan Garrett. Restrained recall is a biggie. Collar grab is a biggie. Tugging is huge. Love doing them all.
Restrained recall- it is like you walk into room full of strangers and feel unsure whats what then you see someone you know, your friend- suddenly things are ok and you feel much more comfy. Same with RR- your dog comes in into new room, full of smells, people, dogs... gets distracted- couple of RR and everything fine again- Da Mama is here, value is with Mama, world is safe:smile2:
Collar grab- useful tool, teach your pup every time you grab the collar something good is going to happen. One- if your dog ever bolts, he would not mind being caught by collar, second- it is easy game to teach if you need to stop dog from self reinforcement or lets say dog did not do "stay" and you need to reposition dog again etc.
Tugging builds drive and improves relationship with your dog. If you have no treats and situation gets heavy, you can always pull down sleeve and tug with your dog...

regarding level of the students- well it is what it is and good trainer will deal with various levels her students present. Some have good obedience skills and some barely know sit.
Don't like luring as training tool but in class circumstances when teaching it could be only way dog will respond. Given highly distracting class situation many dogs will block any new information and actual learning can be only done at home.
regarding jumping after toys- if you want to teach Ellie not to jump, then it is your choice. I do not allow my dogs to jump after toys, unless I say " get it" then it is fine if they jump on me but it is done on cue. If you want to have your toy in your hand and play that way- its your call. Biting- game is over unless it is totally accidental.
I would hate to do agility on leash but you gotta be safe. If place is not fully fenced and you think your dog does not have good recall, what are you going to do? So I think it is just circumstances and not particularly a style of teaching.
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Wonderful information! Thank you!

I am sure the agility on a leash is because this is the very first class for these dogs as a foundation class and it was only the third class. I believe she is trying to see what kind of recall they have to be safe. I am sure as time goes on they will be taught off-leash, but not at this level. Ellie does have a solid recall and has never run away fron me, BUT, I have no idea if she would have anxiety with a new situation/dogs/environment and this place is out in the middle of nowhere AND it even though there are outdoor lights, it is pitch black outside of those lights. If she got away..........::SHUDDER::

BTY--the same instructor teaches class at an indoor/heated fully enclosed building that is about a 30 minute drive (versus a 22 minute drive). I might do that instead. She is not teaching classes there right now, but will int he Spring.
 
What you are describing is similar to what we teach in our Intro level class, minus the collar holding.

I've taught my club's Intro class, which we call Agility 100, and you'd be surprised about the number of people who come in with dogs with minimal to no obedience sills, no/minimum recall, highly reactive to any sort of activity, etc. Some dogs have been so bad I've had to recommend the handlers take an obedience class so they can get some control over their dog since any class beyond 100 has some portion that is done off leash. We do work on basic behaviors, sit/down stay (because of the table and start line) and recalls, including restrained recalls.

Regarding the tug, you know your dog. If you don't want them jumping for the tug, don't let them talk you into training it. Tell the instructor you had issues with the jumping in the past and prefer your dog keeps all four paws on the ground. There will be times during training, regardless of the training, where you will have to be your dog's advocate and simply say "we can't do that for X reason; what other option can you suggest".

Overall, the class sounds pretty good and the pros outweigh the cons.
 
Agility Classes

I would not want to have the teacher try and get me caught up with the other dogs to be able to get in her class.Your dog needs the foundations from Day one not a catch up class.It will come back to bite you in the butt and then you will be trying fix evrything.
 
Sharon said:
I would not want to have the teacher try and get me caught up with the other dogs to be able to get in her class.Your dog needs the foundations from Day one not a catch up class.It will come back to bite you in the butt and then you will be trying fix evrything.
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I agree with Sharon. I started agility training with Bailey in the 2nd session of an 8 week course. So all the dogs in the class had an 8 class head start. Since I knew nothing about agility, I was clueless. I missed a lot of the foundation stuff and felt lost. I had to backtrack and retake an introduction course 6 months later.
 
I would also wait for spring, the class sounds awesome, by the way!!
Or you could just take it to see how she does with the environment but take it easy...
As far as tugging goes, it actually builds HUGE value for you as the handler and it's AMAZING at building confidence... Toffee's tugging makes him happy when we are at places he doesn't know or is unsure of, one game of tug tug tug and he is focused on me instead of worried about everything else around him, he is instantly more confident. It's very easy to train GET IT, and that can be the only time she is allowed to jump, since dogs don't generalize well, it doesn't mean she will jump up on everything and demands things...
Only means she has an allowed outlet for going crazy, lol... I feel it lets off steam, I LOVE it!

Plus agility will keep her thinking and busy, which for her will be a good thing! lol
 
IMHO, I'd do the evening indoor class. OR maybe you can visit the facility if you need to first watching a different instructor, then make your decision.

First, I wouldn't suggest going into a class late. I agree that you really need to work on that foundation stuff. Remember, I'm having to go back after years of being in agility because I didn't focus strongly enough on the foundations (and I think Koji wasn't mature enough for it either back then).

Secondly, the reason I suggested scoping out the indoor facility will be two-fold. 1. you can see how much space you have to work with, see if you like the flooring, etc. and 2. if it rains and is dark, you can stay inside, right? oh wait, that also means you'd have to drive home in the dark. and also, the time will change back so longer days again anyways.

Lastly, you can work on a lot of foundation type stuff at home. In that environment, you can "test" to see if things will work for you. i.e. restrained recall. If Ellie shuts down, then you know this isn't going to work, and instead, you can work on stay/recalls or something like that. Ditto with the tug toy.

And one more thing, realize that a LOT of people allow their agility dogs to do naughty things. Jump up on you, mouth you, etc. Yes, many don't have obedience training either. Koji doesn't. Forget heeling. BUT heeling is great to have later when you need to learn "circle/flatwork". You can teach Ellie what is right and what is wrong. You can also teach her to tug, but never to jump up on you to get a toy, ever. You can teach her that it's okay to get a toy on command, but not w/o.

Remember, just because you see other dogs doing something "naughty", doesn't mean your dog has to do it. It just means that either the handler doesn't care, or never trained their dog to do it only when they want them to (versus dog doing when they want to). I mean, Koji isn't a tugger in agility and it doesn't do much for him. He still is food reward based and probably always will be. He learns faster that way and things stick better. So i use what works for me

You'll learn what works for you and what doesn't. dont' ever be afraid to tell the trainer that you're not going to train something. however, i would always make sure you truly understand why something is used/trained before you say no.
 
Y'all are sooooo awesome! I love posting here. So many people willing to share their knowledge and experience with me! THANK YOU!

I will discuss more with hubby tonight but my gut is to wait until Spring or to go to the indoor facility just a bit further down the road. They have photos posted on their website of the facility and it looks wonderful and there is no way for Ellie to escape there. Like I said, she has a solid recall, but I have never tested her where there is an escape route possible. If she got away out there in the middle of nowhere, I would never forgive myself.

Even though this is the lowest class (foundations) I feel that I should start at the first class. I overheard her saying things about emails she had sent and handouts she had given and "homework skills." Ellie would have missed three weeks of that if we were to start next week. Even at the reduced rate, I think missing the experience would be a detrement for both of us.

I do think this would be a postivie expreince for us. I do worry about grabbing Ellie's collar for any reason because she HATES that. She freaks out. I would have to be positive that that particular thing would be important for her in the sport and then have to have very careful instruction on how to make that a positive thing for her and I already missed that lesson.

The instructor also offers one on one lessons. I have Thursdays and Fridays off. I could ask the instructor for some basic things to work on until Spring and she can also evaluate Ellie and Ellie can play on the equipment. I would liek to see if she is afraid of the open tunnel. I'd liek to see if she is enthused at all.
 
Lahree said:
I do think this would be a postivie expreince for us. I do worry about grabbing Ellie's collar for any reason because she HATES that. She freaks out. I would have to be positive that that particular thing would be important for her in the sport and then have to have very careful instruction on how to make that a positive thing for her and I already missed that lesson.
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I think that this is fairly auxiliary to agility. It's more of a general training thing. The idea is that in an emergency you can grab your dog's collar, or at the end of the run the dog has no trouble coming back to you and not running off. I only know of one person who trained this, and it was because her cocker would run away after finishing the course. He would just run and run because he didn't want the fun to end. If she went to grab his collar, he just ran away faster because he associated the collar grab with the fun ending. If you have a solid recall, or you practice your dog coming back to you for pats/reward, it's not something you need.

It is definitely not crucial to the sport. We never practiced anything like this with our two--and in fact, our dogs always do agility with no collars on.
 
corbinam said:
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It is definitely not crucial to the sport. We never practiced anything like this with our two--and in fact, our dogs always do agility with no collars on.
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That was what i was going to say- I run my dogs naked(no collars)-always have. I have heard of collar bouncing in obedience ala Sylvia Bishop/Celeste Meade but i have never learned the technique so can't comment on it. But from what i have heard some dogs love it ,some dogs don't . Know thy dog. My dogs don't like being roughed up too much. Justice does, but the girls prefer hands off.

All my dogs were started out as baby puppies learned restained recalls for obedience. It is their favorite exercise. Only Diva was taught to run after me and grab a tug . Problem was being a sheepdog with alots of herding drive she liked to grab my pant leg more than the tug at first. :lol:

Ember didn't tug for years she still doesn't really-but it is more of a grab and yank but she is getting quite into it. However, she will run just as fast if she likes a roast beef sandwich is waiting for at the kennel.:wink2:
 
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