Handling systems????

I was really interested in it when you initially posted about Justine's class, but never could find any more information on it until now. I'm wondering if a person can join late as an auditor. I'd really be interested in it. The more I can learn the better.
 
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Class lessons are pretty spread out and auditing will work as we just on our second lesson. I think handling class will be next. I think her concepts can be great if used judiciously even for average handler like me who only competes in fun CPE courses. I like when my job on the course becomes easy peasy:lol:
 
:o What's CPE?

Another question now - how/why did you chose your handling system and have you ever changed methods? Does it cause confusion needing to retrain a different type of handling technique?

Toffee's Mom - As you said, I noticed a lot of people at the shows I've been to recently got through the fiddly middle bits but were faulted when their dogs spun round in the last line of jumps.

SheltieChe - you seem to study/train with a number of different handlers so do you find it better to take the best bits of each rather than just adopt one complete system? (This is what I have done with obedience training, over the years assimlated what I like about different methods and dropped aspects that haven't worked as well.)
The video link you posted was really interesting to watch. This is the sort of technique I meant by being on top of the dog and I think it's very impressive but my gut feeling is this wouldn't suit me or Epic as I don't think I could ping about like that :lol: and I'm sure it would create a lot of frenzied barking! Also our courses are not that twisty either that I've seen. I would be really interested to hear how you find the class.


Out of interest, last night I watched one of last year's agility competitions from Crufts and compared the different techniques used by some of the handlers. I also enjoyed watching some videos of the WCs from 2011. It's fascinating to see how the same results are achieved by very different handling styles. I like these videos as unlike the Crufts ones you get to see the whole picture and don't get close ups of the dog or judge when you are wondering if the handler is doing a front cross or blind cross! :lol:
This is the small team from the UK with some of our top handlers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WylwGpl499M
 
seashel said:
:o What's CPE?
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CPE, which stands for Canine Performance Events, is an agility venue like USDAA, CPE, ASCA, etc. are agility venues. It's a very laid back venue and designed for new agility teams to have successful experiences. The judges and competitors at all the CPE shows I've gone to have been very nice and willing to help people learn the sport.


As for handling systems and varying them for different dogs, I feel you have to modify things based on what the dog needs. The handling system provides a consistent foundation, which is good when you are learning. As you progress, however, you learn different dogs need different ways of doing things simply because they either learn differently or understand things differently, just like people.

As long as you are consistent with your commands you can really do anything you need to in order to be a successful team.
 
CPE is one of the most relaxed fun to run venues here in US- my biased opinion:biggrin2:
I think for you it will come to making choices whether you want to train locally or on line classes. If you have someone good you like locally follow what they teach just because it is easier:biggrin2:
If you do not know anyone, Lauren Langman from Devondogs is great and teaches mostly GD, I think she just released DVD? She might be good reference to help finding trainers in your neck of woods.
http://www.devondogs.co.uk/
Dawn Weaver is another great handler, she is first on your videoclip with Puzzle. I think you might enjoy her as a person and her classes. She has online classes as well as nice book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-KnKbNMY0M&feature=youtu.be
http://www.dawnweaveragility.com/
As for me, nevermind names, I still follow APHS, and fell into it because it was offered locally, thankfully we have some excellent trainers locally. ST training is in sync with APHS and what I am learning now with Justine will be used in bits and pieces to add to what I do but I have no reason to go euro style, I do not compete in those venues nor do I aspire to:lol:
As for different results from different handling systems, yep, there is no right or wrong way to do it, but be clear with your dog and yourself. Staying with a system or starting with a system is better IMHO but I am slow learner:lol:
I do not recommend to start with learning bits here and there though. You might be intuitively gifted though...
 
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Ah handling systems. I started out learning Derrett. No clue if it's more popular here (on the west coast) than APHS. I do know, however, when I started, yes, more people were doing Derrett. It seems more people are doing APHS or a combo of that with European style handling. HOWEVER, I also noticed how the courses (mostly AKC) has changed over the past year too.

I agree that a dog needs a solid foundation of something consistent. And then, even then, when you teach a new trick, say ketcheker-sp? (blind cross), you stil need to train it, so they understand what you're doing. In Derrett speak, that is a big no-no. You never, ever turn your back on your dog or allow your dog to blind cross you.

However, I will always remember what Daisy Peel said to us. She told us, I'm not Derrett, I can't run like Derrett and I don't have Derrett's dogs. So I don't follow any one system completely.

For myself, that hit home. I can't stay in front of my dog constantly, I'm not that fast. I started doing what I needed to do for myself and Koji (as in, start learning to handle him in anyway I can, that made sense, for us as a team).

And honestly, that's my advice to people. Find a system to learn foundation. But as you grow as a team, adjust what you need to, to make it work for you. I know with Koji, he's always been one of those dogs that do things differently and confuse me. LOL.

I started out hardcore Derrett. But now, I just learn whatever works for us. If Koji doesn't seem to get or like something new, we try it a different way. If that other way works well, I go with it.
 
Wow! It's even more complicated than I thought!! :lol:

Thanks for explaining about CPE, that sounds great. Here we have similar with unafilliated (to KC) shows like the first two I went to that have the opputunity to run courses twice, once as training and once for real if you wish or train both. I've found a couple of localish venues that are running these shows over the winter so will probably try to get to a few as I found this really useful and great fun.

My trainer hasn't mentioned any particular type of handling system, but explains what we should do in each situation. I'm not sure if local trainers in the UK tend to teach based on specific systems...but I know Dawn Weaver's system is quite popular with handlers from internet discussions I've seen and have watched people at shows using her techniques. Oddly I haven't really heard too many people mention Greg Derrett, but his system is frequently mentioned in my books so I'm really looking forward to the DVD to learn more.

What I'm intending to do is settle on a method that I can practice and get some consistency with. I certainly want to have a system to follow rather than just randomly doing things which is what's happening at the moment! But I want to see what's 'on offer' before launching into something and potentially finding out it isn't working and having to start from scratch again which I'm sure would be confusing for me and Epic. I'm just loving finding out about all the different techniques though. There's lots of food for thought.

I think that's why I really enjoy dog training because there is always more to learn. :smile2:
 
Silaria said:
My club's curriculum is based on the APHS.

Every time discussion about handling systems comes up, I get the impression that APHS is fairly widely used on the east coast and the Derrett system seems to be more widely used on the west coast. Is this my imagination?
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Can't speak for the east, but out west things are changing.

Many, many handlers, top class handlers included, have been shifting to the benefits of motion-based handling. Actually, most trainers I know who used to be GD diehards have all abandoned his ways.
APHS provides a nice foundation for getting through the typical U.S. course of the past; but there is much more needed to handle more complicated courses which are becoming more common & will continue to do so.
In fact, many recognized APHS handlers regardless of geography have already tweaked it so much in order to improve their performance.
OneMind is just one other approach that is doing it's rounds & they will be out west later this year.
 
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