High Protein Diets

*Caro said:
I definately agree. Pretty dodgy article in so many ways. Where's the evidence?
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Much more informative articles are the ones from the Origen site, cited by an alert poster in an earlier thread on the high protein debate.
http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/orijen/highProtein.aspx

The first two articles cited at the bottom, by the very highly respected Drs. Finco and Bovee, are a bit of 'tough sledding' but offer good insight, and would be worthy of discussion here.

A couple of caveats - the articles are 12 years old, in general when you read articles like this, and I'm not saying this is the case here but it may be, 'money has changed hands' between the dog food manufacturer and the veterinarian. This is ok, it is the way of the world these days, but the lay reader should be aware of it. - Dr. Mac
 
how are us common folk supposed to know the truth.... Orijen is going to justify high protein cuz they have high protein and making it sound that dogs and cats NEED NEED NEED high protein people will spend 70-90 dollars on Orijen for their pets.

FROMM for instance (i picked them cuz i was just on their website) advocates high quality deboned organic local meat .. but low protein mixed with ORGANIC WHOLE NATURAL GRAINS... ORGANIC HAND PICKED FRUITS AND VEGGIES.


WELL HeLL they both make great selling points!!! :confused2:
 
ok few things to clarify
wolfs in the wild live 7-8 years normal lifespan
adult humans which are done growing have need for protein to rebuilt whatever is lost through the daily life activities which "rule of thumb" is equals to weight in kg. So if person weights 50 kg such person needs apprx 50 gm of protein per day. So one good hamburger will have this amount of protein to fulfill your needs, rest of it will be eliminated- as it was pointed out proteins can not be stored by body as opposite to carbs and we all know where those carbs show...
there is little bit of misunderstanding about beet pulp/ again it is my 2 cents opinion/. Beet pup is actually what is left when sugar is removed from sugar beets. It is gentle fiber which is very helpful in absorbing all that gunk that created during digestion and helps to carry it out to eliminate. So think of it as a sponge that helps to clean up the body from inside in a natural way. Putting it on the same shelf with etho is ridiculous and there is no any scientific evidence connecting it to cancer. Opposite to it, humans and dogs need to have fiber in the diets to make it balanced.
 
So barb, what was the verdict on the Blood tests. I'm somewhat concerned because I am feeding Orijen(its not that expensive for me here) and was considering changing to now! as I like to have all my dogs on the same food and one is a performance dog and one is(going to be) a show dog.
 
It's impossible to draw a direct parallel between diet and Bacca's liver issues, but it does seem to point against a high protein diet. But I want to be clear that this is inconclusive, as Bacca may have been predisposed to react negatively to it already.

What I can tell you all is this:

- Around April or May last year, I introduced the boys to Orijen
- In June, Bacca's face swelled up and we didn't know what caused it, but anti-biotics seemed to get it under control
- At the same time, Bacca stopped eating and would not Orijen. I switched them to Legacy. He started eating again.
- Had his bloodwork retested in the fall, and his ALT had soared to 641 where it should be between 5 and 95.
- Took him off Legacy and went to Now! at 24% protein. His ALt dropped to 203. Still high, but significant improvement.

Was it the high protein that caused it, or did it simply accelerate a pre-existing condition? Dunno!

I guess, the only lesson that I got out of this is to not got to extreme "anything" and to take websites at face value - make sure you get a 100% view of the item you are considering.

And what works for one, may not work for another. Stay atuned to your dogs and their eating, behaviour, and of course, their poop behaviour
!
 
SheltieGuy said:
I can't afford "good meat" for myself so its hard for me to believe all these dog food companies meats are of such high quality..
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You probably could, it would just take some work. When I started feeding raw, I didn't think it would last long because of the cost. Half the fun is finding the stores with the "Friday meat markdown" days, or the chicken on sale for $.49 per pound. I am spending much less now than I was while feeding Orijens. No, my dogs don't get "Organic", antibiotic free chicken. They eat the same chicken I do.

As to protein. I am in the camp that a dog can handle a very large amount of good quality protein. I know that the raw meats I feed are anywhere between 15 and 21% protein, which seems to be low, but we have to remember it is INCLUSIVE of water. Kibble is EXCLUSIVE of water, because it has been cooked and dried. So the raw meat could really be 60% protein when the water is removed. I have not yet found a way to compare dry kibble to wet meat to compare the values, at least not without more complicated math than I am willing to do. :smile2:
 
BarbV said:
It's impossible to draw a direct parallel between diet and Bacca's liver issues, but it does seem to point against a high protein diet. But I want to be clear that this is inconclusive, as Bacca may have been predisposed to react negatively to it already.

What I can tell you all is this:

- Around April or May last year, I introduced the boys to Orijen
- In June, Bacca's face swelled up and we didn't know what caused it, but anti-biotics seemed to get it under control
- At the same time, Bacca stopped eating and would not Orijen. I switched them to Legacy. He started eating again.
- Had his bloodwork retested in the fall, and his ALT had soared to 641 where it should be between 5 and 95.
- Took him off Legacy and went to Now! at 24% protein. His ALt dropped to 203. Still high, but significant improvement.

Was it the high protein that caused it, or did it simply accelerate a pre-existing condition? Dunno!

I guess, the only lesson that I got out of this is to not got to extreme "anything" and to take websites at face value - make sure you get a 100% view of the item you are considering.

And what works for one, may not work for another. Stay atuned to your dogs and their eating, behaviour, and of course, their poop behaviour
!
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Barb I agree with you 1,000%. Some people choose to treat Science Diet or foods similar like the "devil spawn" and people like ME who feed it to their pets are doing something wrong..
 
Megansmom said:
Barb I agree with you 1,000%. Some people choose to treat Science Diet or foods similar like the "devil spawn" and people like ME who feed it to their pets are doing something wrong..
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Not "devil spawn", but certainly significantly overpriced, considering the lack of quality in the ingredients list. Even my vet won't sell it. I firmly believe that for every ailment these foods "treat", there is a way to do it with whole foods. The food doesn't have to be raw meat, but some combination of cooked/raw meat, veggie, oatmeal, egg, etc. Anything but peanut hulls, sawdust, and known carcinogens (at $2.50 per pound!, more than double what I pay for real meat).
 
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