How do/did you build value for jumps?

How's Toffee like food? I'd use the food as a placement reward. Especially if you're timing isn't very good right now. And never ever work them with food IN your hand. Oh yeah, they start to focus on hands, nothing else (trust me, I'm working hard to break Koji of that habit).

For myself, Koji didn't really have drive. So, it was show him the food, place it on the ground, let him sniff it, PULL HIM BACK. lol. then let him go. It seemed to work better when we would do 3 jumps, versus just 1.

Overtime, he's learned to drive towards it better.

Side note. I'm a bit concerned about teaching your dog to take a jump w/o any signal from you. Agility pros, is that typical? And is it because you're supposed to teach them to pull off if you call them (come, here, name, etc)? It kinda reminds me of when we go to our start line, in class, and the dogs are NOT supposed to take any obstacle, because we didn't tell them to, regardless if it's in their line of sight. I know I trained on that a lot, cuz Koji would take stuff for "rewards" and was getting demotivated, because he wasn't getting any. I had to reteach him to take obstacles, ONLY when I asked him to. Otherwise, he shouldn't be taking an obstacle. I say this, because I see how my agility friend's dog takes anything in his path....great if we're going that way. Not so great if we're not. Whereas, I can pull Koji off any obstacle and using the "go on" command let's him know it's okay to keep going. Hmm..........

I see a lot of bad habits we learned early on.....even though at the time it didnt' matter (dog jumping anything on the way to the start line). I would find out if driving towards a jump, w/o a word/signal from you, is a good thing or not. I think it'd depend on the type of dog too. Just some thoughts. I'm no pro at this, but as I watch more and more, I see what works and what "sometimes" works.
 
k9kreationz said:
Side note. I'm a bit concerned about teaching your dog to take a jump w/o any signal from you. Agility pros, is that typical? And is it because you're supposed to teach them to pull off if you call them (come, here, name, etc)? It kinda reminds me of when we go to our start line, in class, and the dogs are NOT supposed to take any obstacle, because we didn't tell them to, regardless if it's in their line of sight. I know I trained on that a lot, cuz Koji would take stuff for "rewards" and was getting demotivated, because he wasn't getting any. I had to reteach him to take obstacles, ONLY when I asked him to. Otherwise, he shouldn't be taking an obstacle. I say this, because I see how my agility friend's dog takes anything in his path....great if we're going that way. Not so great if we're not. Whereas, I can pull Koji off any obstacle and using the "go on" command let's him know it's okay to keep going. Hmm..........

I see a lot of bad habits we learned early on.....even though at the time it didnt' matter (dog jumping anything on the way to the start line). I would find out if driving towards a jump, w/o a word/signal from you, is a good thing or not. I think it'd depend on the type of dog too. Just some thoughts. I'm no pro at this, but as I watch more and more, I see what works and what "sometimes" works.
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From my understanding, if you are running and facing an obstacle with your shoulders and are not giving any other signal (verbal, looking at your dog, hand signal, etc...) then your dog should take the obstacle that you are facing. To me, "go on" means to go on to an obstacle up ahead. I don't think it's necessary if you are going in that direction. "Go on" is for the dog getting out ahead of you. Maybe I just have a simplistic approach to agility, and I'm definitely no pro! But I think for me, less is more. I don't want to have to instruct my dog on every obstacle. It reminds me of when we first started, we did use "over" for jumps. But now that Bentley knows if I'm facing (facing = shoulders pointed) an obstacle and running that way, he should take the jump. I don't want to say "over over over tunnel over" for 3 jumps, a tunnel and a jump.

That being said, I have a dog that has literally never taken the wrong obstacle just because he felt like it. He is so handler focused that the idea of going away from me is very foreign to him. Him taking whatever is in front of him without me is a degree of obstacle focus that he definitely doesn't have (which is a good thing and a bad thing too).

I remember Stuart Mah saying that when you use your hands you are calling your dog's attention to a change. So to me, that wouldn't be necessary unless I want something different (like an out, or an in, etc etc).
 
corbinam said:
From my understanding, if you are running and facing an obstacle with your shoulders and are not giving any other signal (verbal, looking at your dog, hand signal, etc...) then your dog should take the obstacle that you are facing. I don't want to say "over over over tunnel over" for 3 jumps, a tunnel and a jump.
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Good points. I think maybe I was thinking about just standing there, not moving, and thinking a dog should take the next obstacle w/o any signal. To me, the fact that you're moving forward, is it's signal to the dog to keep driving forward. I was also thinking about going to a start line (in class) and watching dogs take whatever they want. I was told that was a big no-no.

And ohmigod, I was so happy when I could stop saying "over over over tunnel over" LOL. Although, sometimes I still do it w/o thinking about it.
 
We train the jumps by encouraging the dog to offer the behavior when introducing the jumps.

You want the dog to have a certain level of independence on an agility course. You need a level of independence for the distance work. You also want the dog to pay attention to what you are telling them both verbally and non-verbally.

Once the dog understands the concept of "jump", you slowly wean away the reward for every automatic jump. Instead, you start to reward when the dog is released with "OK" (or whatever release word you use) if its a Start Line or randomly on a course - like when completing a more complex series of jumps successfully based on your cues.

Basically you 'up the ante' of what behavior you want to earn a reward.
 
You guys are the best!!! NOW it is tarting to make sense to me!?

This discussion helps ME so much starting out, I just don't have the experience. Now it makes sense what my trainer is trying to accomplish, and for us complete noobs, you are saying your should straight forward that is the obstacle your dog should take in the end result?
It sounds like
Now I understand why she wants the dog to take the jump. I THINK this time I will have nothing else but cheese in class... now where can I put it, prob my pocket so it is not in my hand!?

I will DEF look up Susan Garrett, that sounds very similar to what my trainer is saying!?
 
I am by no means an expert, in fact I consider myself a novice still. But I taught Justice to only take the obstacle that he was told. Yes I got a dog who could be called off anything, never took an off course, and only did as told. I also got a very slow dog(I'm a slow person) and a dog who couldn't/ wouldn't do distance work. Ember needed to be taught/motivated to love to jump but was taught almost the same way as far as control except I allowed her more freedom. I got a faster dog and one more willing to do more distance. With Diva, I taught her if I was close to an obstacle take it unless you are told not to by voice, body position or singal. When I walk between the the jumps or equipment to the start line, she is in heel and paying attention to me. I tell her not to take the jumps so she knows the difference. Yes she the this point in her training runs off and does her own thing but she is getting better and reading my cues and she is fast, willing to do distance and more confident than my previous dogs. In Diva's defense some of my cues are not good and that sends her running in the wrong direction or she is being over rewarded for a certain piece of equipment in the immediate past and she runs to it in hopes of reward. 2 weeks ago that was contacts,this week it was weaves. Just my observation.:smile2:
 
Toffee's Mom said:
You guys are the best!!! NOW it is tarting to make sense to me!?


Now I understand why she wants the dog to take the jump. I THINK this time I will have nothing else but cheese in class... now where can I put it, prob my pocket so it is not in my hand!?

I will DEF look up Susan Garrett, that sounds very similar to what my trainer is saying!?
Click to expand...

I use cheese and I hide in it my mouth, in my cheek. Not if you think you may choke on it don't do that.:winkgrin:
 
This morning...
what you want me to do what?
Over this, you mean? What's in it for me?
Oh, look I jumped and tug toy fell out of the sky for me?!
 
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