How do you teach the heal position?

[BlueBandit]

i guess i should define "snap the leash" a lil better..hehe sorry
not violently snap or pull the dog back real hard,
I guess snap is too harsh of a word...cant think of any other word..failed english

i mean like gently snap the leash where it gives a small tug at his collar
They like to use the advantage of where your dog strives to please the master method and letting your dog know that there displeased and letting them know what they did wrong, I dont really mind it.

They do always remind us to overly praise our dog for good work ,which i do
I kind of like to do half an half, like 1/3 negative and 2/3 positive training, defining negative i mean like correction training an commands like Ah ah and gently popping the leash to get in back in heal position, stuff like that

in couple days for about 15 mins i dont really even need to pop the leash and he's already starting to sit on his own i hope hes ahead of his class

 

[GeeRome]

The issue I have with leash pops and that form of training is that it is telling the dog that they are doing something wrong without first showing him what is correct. It would be like you getting a new job and no one telling you what to do, but pinching you on the arm every time you do something wrong. Sure, the pinch might not hurt horribly, but you are going to get mighty frustrated if people only tell you when you do something wrong without first showing you how to do your job correctly.

As for the "working to please their master" thing ... would you go to work if you didn't get a pay cheque? Do you work just for the fun of it and knowing that it is making your boss happy? Why do we expect our dogs to work that way? Don't get me wrong, I truly believe that dogs can enjoy working, both of mine do. There is nothing they like more than learning and training. But there has to be some pay off for it other than just knowing that I am happy with their actions. "Pleasing their master" also gives the implication that if they don't do the action, they are "displeasing their master". And if "displeasing their master" is a negative thing, then there must then be negative consequences for it. So calling it "pleasing their master" is really just putting a sun-shiny name to negative training.

The way I view training is that I want my dogs to work because they enjoy it, not because they are afraid of the consequences if they don't. If you have a dog that is not afraid of doing something incorrectly and earning themself a correction, then you have a dog that is working and performing with a lot more spirit and enthusiasm. Watching a competitive obedience ring, you can immediately tell how each handler trains their dogs. The robots are the ones trained with correction based training, the dogs that bubble over with enthusiasm and excitement are the positively trained dogs. I prefer watching the latter, myself, and strive to have my dogs perform in such a way as to envoke that same response from other people. There is nothing like having complete strangers smiling and laughing and cheering for you when you leave an obedience ring, brought on solely because of the contagious joy of a happily working dog. I have yet to see a correction based trainer get that response from a crowd.

 

[BlueBandit]

that makes alot sense actually

so how do you show the dog to do the right thing and what do you do if he's not doing the exercise correctly
just a lil confused.

 

[Chris]

that makes alot sense actually

so how do you show the dog to do the right thing and what do you do if he's not doing the exercise correctly
just a lil confused.

I respectfully disagree with GeeRome about the leash pop. I used it with all mine. However, I used it AFTER i had shown them what the correct response was, such as sit. (And I never used it for "Come.") I gave just the quickest light tug -- not a hard jerk, but more of an attention-getting device. I accompanied it with the sharp "eah" sound. I would repeat the command and, if the pup obeyed, I praised profusely. Whenever the pup obeyed the first time, I praised AND treated. If the pup didn't obey, I would put her into the correct position and say, "Good girl." Now if someone is slow on a command, just the sound produces attention and cooperation. They know that sound means, "Uh oh -- Mom wants me to cooperate."

 

[GeeRome]

that makes alot sense actually

so how do you show the dog to do the right thing and what do you do if he's not doing the exercise correctly
just a lil confused.

I use clicker to train just about everything, but if you choose not to use a clicker, that is fine as well. Just choose a marker word and it can work in a very similar way. You likely won't get as immediate results without using the actual clicker, but the theory behind the training is the same.

First, you want to teach the dog where the heel position is. This is done before you even start moving, no walking. Just working on the dog getting from whereever he is to heel position. Start with a treat in your left hand, lure the dog towards your left side as you take a step backwards with your left foot. Make a U slightly behind you so that the dog is facing forwards at heel position, ask for a sit, then click and treat. Repeat ad nauseum and gradually fade out the lure and the step backwards. With time (both of my guys caught on after only 3 or 4 ten minute sessions over the course of a couple of days) the dog will get himself into heel position with a cue, either hand signal or verbal cue or both. Only when the dog is able to get himself into heel position while you are standing stationary can you start adding movement. If your dog can't find heel position while you are standing still, there is no way they are going to find it when you are moving.

After they are able to get into heel position with you standing still, progress to the next step. Ask for them to get into heel position, and once they are sitting in heel, take one step forward while cuing them to get into heel position again. Only one step, then stop. When they again sit in heel position, click and treat. Repeat until they are solid then add in another step, and another and another. Eventually, you will be able to walk at a normal brisk pace and the dog will remain in heel position.

If the dog does any of the steps incorrectly, ask for the action again. When they perform it correctly the second time, then praise verbally but NO click/treat. Only click/treat when they do it correctly the first time. If you have to re-cue them, you can give verbal praise but no high value rewards (food, toys, physical praise). You are essentially saying "yes, that is good, but not quite what I was looking for".

This method of training is a whole different mind-set, and once you get into that mind-set it just makes so much more sense than correction based training. You can push your dog further and ask for higher levels of performance from them, and they will enthusiastically give it to you.

Looking at training a heel from a correction based trainer's perspective, it turns into a scary spiral. You start with a dog that doesn't know how to heel, you correct them with a leash pop when they do something wrong and give verbal praise when they do something correctly. But with the vague explanation of what is "correct" and how they are supposed to perform the correct action, they are more likely to make mistakes as they weed through the fuzzy descriptions (fuzzy in "dog language", even though it may be perfectly clear to a human mind). As they make more mistakes, what is your next course of action? Most correction based trainers will start going in the direction of adding firmer corrections, under the assumption that the dog is being stubborn or is difficult to train. So a light leash pop turns into a firmer leash pop. If the dog continues to mess up, a harsh verbal correction is added, then a physical correction in addition to a leash pop, then the training collars come out, chokes and pinches. All because the explaination wasn't sufficient and the dog didn't understand what was being asked of it. Instead of making the explanation more clear, the punishments for incorrect action gets more severe. So, again using the story of getting a new job, what if you got a new job and your job was to stack a series of papers in a certain order, but you haven't been told the order that they are supposed to go in. If you do it incorrectly, you get a pinch in the arm. Next time you do it incorrectly again you get a punch in the shoulder, again and you get yelled at, do it wrong again and now "tools" are brought in so you get smacked with a wooden spoon. Still, no one has actually showed you what you are supposed to be doing, you are just guessing. Do you keep confidently and enthusiastically trying to do your job, and risk a worse correction? Or do you opt to just give up and not do anything at all for fear of being corrected again?

I was able to teach both of my dogs a solid heel in about 1-2 weeks (Gio was about 1 week, Romeo about a week and a half) using this method. That is from knowing nothing about heel position to perfect moving heel with pace changes. I made stationary heel position their default action (ie. get into heel for food, for me to throw their toy, before they got let outside, etc.) and practiced it 3 to 4 times for 10 minutes each for about 2 days. After that, we worked on moving heels 1 to 2 times per day for 10 to 15 minutes each time for a week or so. Done.

 

[GeeRome]

Sorry, I had more to add to that, but had to run from the computer for a second.

Another thing that corrections will often do is close the door on other actions. Especially for a sensitive breed like a Sheltie, it doesn't take much of a correction to stick in their brain for a good long time.

I know many people who have transitioned from correction based training to positive training and are currently training and competing in Rally-O. At the Versatility level of CARO Rally-O, the dog is required to heel on the right side and to be able to switch back and forth between left and right side heeling, performing sits, downs, stands, stays and recalls on both the right and left side. There are some people that I train with that originally trained a left heel using correction based methods. Now, they are having one heck of a time getting their dog to heel on the right side. The dogs have been corrected for getting out of left heel position, so are very resistant to moving to the right side and heeling. Even after applying a new term to the right side heel and retraining, many of their dogs are having trouble adjusting, thinking that they are going to be corrected for being away from the left heel. So the corrections that made it so that the dog had a solid left heel are now hindering further training because the dog is nervous about leaving the left side. Conversely, people that trained a left heel with positive training methods (myself included) like I described previously are not having an issue at all switching to the right side. Since their dogs were never corrected for leaving the left heel position, there is no stigma attached to the idea of moving over to the right side.

Also, if you look at agility training, you will see the same patterns. The first thing my agility instructor told the beginner class that I was in with Romeo was "Don't you dare let me hear you saying no or ack to your dog here!" The idea being that, if you give a correction (even a verbal correction) as the dog is attempting a new obstacle, then you are ingraining in their head that they need to be hesitant and careful about the action, they slow down, check back with the handler, or sensitive dogs may refuse the obstacle all together. When training weaves, you never give a verbal correction if the dog enters on the wrong side. You just call them back neutrally and try again, praising when they get it correct, but ignoring when they get it wrong.

 

[BarbV]

I respectfully disagree with GeeRome about the leash pop. I used it with all mine. However, I used it AFTER i had shown them what the correct response was, such as sit. (And I never used it for "Come.") I gave just the quickest light tug -- not a hard jerk, but more of an attention-getting device. I accompanied it with the sharp "eah" sound. I would repeat the command and, if the pup obeyed, I praised profusely. Whenever the pup obeyed the first time, I praised AND treated. If the pup didn't obey, I would put her into the correct position and say, "Good girl." Now if someone is slow on a command, just the sound produces attention and cooperation. They know that sound means, "Uh oh -- Mom wants me to cooperate."

Yes, the light tug is what they tought in my obedience class - and you are right - it was only for attention-getting. Never, ever a jerk or a snap of the leash. And yes, when they responded, always a treat!

 

[BarbV]

Sorry, I had more to add to that, but had to run from the computer for a second.

Another thing that corrections will often do is close the door on other actions. Especially for a sensitive breed like a Sheltie, it doesn't take much of a correction to stick in their brain for a good long time.

I know many people who have transitioned from correction based training to positive training and are currently training and competing in Rally-O. At the Versatility level of CARO Rally-O, the dog is required to heel on the right side and to be able to switch back and forth between left and right side heeling, performing sits, downs, stands, stays and recalls on both the right and left side. There are some people that I train with that originally trained a left heel using correction based methods. Now, they are having one heck of a time getting their dog to heel on the right side. The dogs have been corrected for getting out of left heel position, so are very resistant to moving to the right side and heeling. Even after applying a new term to the right side heel and retraining, many of their dogs are having trouble adjusting, thinking that they are going to be corrected for being away from the left heel. So the corrections that made it so that the dog had a solid left heel are now hindering further training because the dog is nervous about leaving the left side. Conversely, people that trained a left heel with positive training methods (myself included) like I described previously are not having an issue at all switching to the right side. Since their dogs were never corrected for leaving the left heel position, there is no stigma attached to the idea of moving over to the right side.

Also, if you look at agility training, you will see the same patterns. The first thing my agility instructor told the beginner class that I was in with Romeo was "Don't you dare let me hear you saying no or ack to your dog here!" The idea being that, if you give a correction (even a verbal correction) as the dog is attempting a new obstacle, then you are ingraining in their head that they need to be hesitant and careful about the action, they slow down, check back with the handler, or sensitive dogs may refuse the obstacle all together. When training weaves, you never give a verbal correction if the dog enters on the wrong side. You just call them back neutrally and try again, praising when they get it correct, but ignoring when they get it wrong.

I guess it really depends what you are trying to accomplish. My pups don't do show or rally or trials. I just want a nice walk with my dog. I can see that what GeeRome suggests is much more reliable, long-term method if training for competition, where accuracy is key!

But all I want my dog to do is not strain on the leash when we go for a walk in the neighbourhood and pull me down the street! Or if I get bored with what ever great smell he found and I want to continue the walk.

So I don't insist on a heel position. I do however, expect the pup to come next to me if a situation arises e.g. crossing a street corner, another dog, people who appear nervous. So I focus on making sure the dog will do a sit on a walk, when I tell him to.

 

[GeeRome]

If the leash tug is only for getting their attention, then why not use your voice?

What happens if your dog is off leash and you want their attention? What do you fall back on?

For those of you with children, what did you teach them to do when they wanted your attention? Shove you in the shoulder or address you with "mom" or "dad"?

Positive training isn't only for competitive pursuits.

 

[BarbV]

If the leash tug is only for getting their attention, then why not use your voice?

What happens if your dog is off leash and you want their attention? What do you fall back on?

For those of you with children, what did you teach them to do when they wanted your attention? Shove you in the shoulder or address you with "mom" or "dad"?

Positive training isn't only for competitive pursuits.

Don't get me wrong....I'm all for positive training. It's always my first option. .

All I was saying is that a perfect heel is not a number one requirement for me and may not be a necessity for everyone. It's got nothing to do with teaching your dog a proper recall. I see those as separate and distinct. So I'm going to spend my training time on the important stuff. Like the recall. But if my pup wants to walk a few feet in front of me when we go for a walk, then, I've no issue with that. I'm not going to waste training time to make him heel - because the walk is for him, not me.

Which is why I usually walk him on an extendable leash. As we walk along, he can stop and smell all the delicious stuff, but I can quickly bring him back when I need to.

That was my only point. If you want a perfect heel all the time, then your method is appropriate. If you just want a nice walk, without the dog walking you, then a gentle tug back and treat when they cooperate and sometimes a sit to regain their attention is all that is required.

I actually think we are violently agreeing here!