I guess I am just confused because the thread began asking for information on how to teach a heel. If you don't want a perfect heel, then that is perfectly fine. Not everyone has a need for that. But I don't agree that leash pops or "gentle tugs" are necessary for loose leash walking, either. You can easily teach a loose leash walk with the same methods that I use for teaching a heel, just require your dog to perform at a lower standard (ie. as long as they aren't straining on the leash). The training methods and theories don't change just because the end points do. If I were teaching two children to swim knowing that one of them just wanted to have fun swimming laps while the other wanted to go to swimming competitions, I would train them both the same way with the same methods. Just take the competitive swimming prospect to a higher standard then the fun swimmer.
How do you teach the heal position?
- Thread starter BlueBandit
- Start date
I went to my first clicker class yesterday with my two pups. One of the things we have to teach this week is how to start walking on a loose leash. Not the heel position yet. We had the dogs on a 6 foot leash and we would start walking around and each time the dog would turn towards us and walk to 'with' us, we clicked and treated. It did not take long for them to figure out what was needed to get the click. That is how we 'start' to teach the loose leash walk. The instructor said that whenever we walk our dogs from now on, if we want them to learn to walk on a loose leash and not pull, we should NEVER let them pull, therefore, we are either training them or managing the pulling with either a gentle leader or a special halter that will turn them around if they pull. Next week we will learn more steps. There are no tugs of the leash. So far, so good, and my Chinook is a puller!
Congrats Ania!! Hope the classes help 
There are a couple of methods that you can use with clicker, and you can switch them up depending on what you are trying to teach. What your instructor was doing at your class is called "capturing". You basically just let the dog act however they are going to act, and when they happen to give you the action that you want you click and treat. You can use "capturing" to get actions that your dog does throughout the day, something like sneezing or bowing. If the dog does it naturally and you don't know how to train them to do it on command, then wait until they do it by themselves and click it. There is also "shaping", usually luring the dog into position and then clicking when they are where you want them to be. A fun one is "free shaping". I play this game with my dogs a lot. You essentially just sit there with a bag of treats and a clicker and wait for your dog to offer you something. It could be something as simple as turning their head slightly to the right. Click for that a couple of times and then wait for them to increase the action. You are really just letting the dog pick the trick they are doing, and you can get some really cool actions out of it by giving no commands at all.
There are a couple of methods that you can use with clicker, and you can switch them up depending on what you are trying to teach. What your instructor was doing at your class is called "capturing". You basically just let the dog act however they are going to act, and when they happen to give you the action that you want you click and treat. You can use "capturing" to get actions that your dog does throughout the day, something like sneezing or bowing. If the dog does it naturally and you don't know how to train them to do it on command, then wait until they do it by themselves and click it. There is also "shaping", usually luring the dog into position and then clicking when they are where you want them to be. A fun one is "free shaping". I play this game with my dogs a lot. You essentially just sit there with a bag of treats and a clicker and wait for your dog to offer you something. It could be something as simple as turning their head slightly to the right. Click for that a couple of times and then wait for them to increase the action. You are really just letting the dog pick the trick they are doing, and you can get some really cool actions out of it by giving no commands at all.
ok I have a question (sorry for the hijack) the lab I am raising to be a guide dog is not allowed to be clicker trained or treat trained plus his heel position is different from the normal heel position ( his back legs are in line with my legs) so how do I tech him to heel with out giving leash corrections? btw he has to wear either a choke chain, or prong collar last resort is the halti. the way they have us train heel is; I start walking as soon as he gets too far ahead I have to do a quick 180 and jerk. I have to do this every time he forges ahead, there has to be a better way than that, but it has to involve no click or treats! (Pilot Dogs rules) any suggestions??
You can use the clicker theory without using a clicker and without using food. You just need to find a different marker and a different reward. So a vocal marker will work in lieu of a clicker. And for a reward, try excited verbal praise or physical praise. Since it is a Lab, he probably likes toys or balls, you can use that as well.
With guide dogs you run into different situations, though. When I train dogs, either for competition or daily manners, I like to have a happy excited dog. With guide dogs, they are required to be a little more sedate in order to do their job and fill the role of a service dog (essentially, blending into the back ground and just being a tool that won't draw attention to their handler).
With that in mind, what I would try would be to get the dog to walk in heel (the heel that is required of a guide dog, like you described) and reward with calm verbal praise, maybe some light physical touch. Do a couple reps of that, then release the dog and reward with physical play, ball, tug, chase, etc. So they learn that when they are calm and walking appropriately, it will earn them a release to play like a Lab pup wants to play. Then, when back at work (ie. heeling) they go back into the calm mindframe.
The "turn and jerk" method can be adapted to positive training, the difference being that you give the dog a verbal warning before you turn away and you don't jerk the leash as you do. So if the dog forges ahead, you might say something like "hey, this way!" then turn and walk the other direction, praise when the dog catches up to you and resumes heel position. The physical motion of you turning and walking in the other way is the only pressure to the leash that is needed, no jerking of the leash, just your body moving forward that applies the pressure, and always with a verbal cue before the change of direction.
Now, that is what I would do if I got to make the rules. But guide dog schools have their own sets of rules, so I wouldn't want to go changing their teaching strategy without first consulting with them. That said, there are guide dog schools that do not allow the use of training collars (chokes and prongs) that are, in my opinion, much more reasonable. I personally would not train for someone that insisted I use a prong or choke, they are damaging to the dog both physically and mentally and follow a very outdated method of training. In my opinion, service dogs should behave appropriately without the threat of a choke or a pinch. If you train a dog with a training collar (choke or prong) then it is very difficult to wean off of that, often times when you switch to a flat buckle collar afterwards, you have no control over the dog. They have learned that the training collar is what delivers the correction, so if the trainin collar is off then all bets are off and you, as a trainer and handler, have nothing to fall back on. Service dogs should not be working with training collars on, they should be solid, stable and doing their job regardless of the type of collar, not controlled by a choke or prong. But again, that is delving into the realm of personal opinion and you have to follow the rules of the guide dog school you are working with, at the risk of the dog you are raising being a wash out based on their criteria if you don't. It's a touch place to be, one that I wouldn't put myself in.
With guide dogs you run into different situations, though. When I train dogs, either for competition or daily manners, I like to have a happy excited dog. With guide dogs, they are required to be a little more sedate in order to do their job and fill the role of a service dog (essentially, blending into the back ground and just being a tool that won't draw attention to their handler).
With that in mind, what I would try would be to get the dog to walk in heel (the heel that is required of a guide dog, like you described) and reward with calm verbal praise, maybe some light physical touch. Do a couple reps of that, then release the dog and reward with physical play, ball, tug, chase, etc. So they learn that when they are calm and walking appropriately, it will earn them a release to play like a Lab pup wants to play. Then, when back at work (ie. heeling) they go back into the calm mindframe.
The "turn and jerk" method can be adapted to positive training, the difference being that you give the dog a verbal warning before you turn away and you don't jerk the leash as you do. So if the dog forges ahead, you might say something like "hey, this way!" then turn and walk the other direction, praise when the dog catches up to you and resumes heel position. The physical motion of you turning and walking in the other way is the only pressure to the leash that is needed, no jerking of the leash, just your body moving forward that applies the pressure, and always with a verbal cue before the change of direction.
Now, that is what I would do if I got to make the rules. But guide dog schools have their own sets of rules, so I wouldn't want to go changing their teaching strategy without first consulting with them. That said, there are guide dog schools that do not allow the use of training collars (chokes and prongs) that are, in my opinion, much more reasonable. I personally would not train for someone that insisted I use a prong or choke, they are damaging to the dog both physically and mentally and follow a very outdated method of training. In my opinion, service dogs should behave appropriately without the threat of a choke or a pinch. If you train a dog with a training collar (choke or prong) then it is very difficult to wean off of that, often times when you switch to a flat buckle collar afterwards, you have no control over the dog. They have learned that the training collar is what delivers the correction, so if the trainin collar is off then all bets are off and you, as a trainer and handler, have nothing to fall back on. Service dogs should not be working with training collars on, they should be solid, stable and doing their job regardless of the type of collar, not controlled by a choke or prong. But again, that is delving into the realm of personal opinion and you have to follow the rules of the guide dog school you are working with, at the risk of the dog you are raising being a wash out based on their criteria if you don't. It's a touch place to be, one that I wouldn't put myself in.
thanks I will try and see if that helps. he is not as bad as the dobermans I have raised were, in the terms of pulling. I actually am having more trouble with him sitting still and staying still! I can use the ball for a reward but he is not allowed to play tug or chase. also I am not allowed to do any target training. don't ask me why they don't allow target training 
He actualy did very good at the store yesterday, he walked beside me with only a little pulling when he saw people.
He actualy did very good at the store yesterday, he walked beside me with only a little pulling when he saw people.I'm trying to teach my pup heel command with food as lure as you taught here. The problem is, he jump and try to snatch the food from my hand as I lure him to the correct position, he end up at heel position though.
Do you think this would be a problem?
Should I reward him with the treat for the right heel position, even as he try to snatch the food from my hand?
He doesn't try this, jump and snap when I taught him sit and down. Seems he just doesn't understand the command and want the treat badly.
Do you think this would be a problem?
Should I reward him with the treat for the right heel position, even as he try to snatch the food from my hand?
He doesn't try this, jump and snap when I taught him sit and down. Seems he just doesn't understand the command and want the treat badly.
In this case, I would try backing up a step or two. First, teach him not to snap at the treats, then teach him to follow a hand lure, then try for the heel position.
To teach him not to snap at treats, hold a treat in your fingers and hold it down at his level. He will try to nipple the treat out of your fingers ("mugging"), but hold the treat firm and don't let him get it. Just keep your hand still and wait him out. The second that he stops nibbling at your fingers, pop the treat in his mouth. Repeat ad nauseum. Eventually he will learn that he only gets the treat when he doesn't snap at it.
For teaching a hand lure. Hold a treat between your thumb and finger, stretching your other fingers out flat. Hold your hand down to his level and move it to the side saying "here". When he follows your hand, reward with the treat. Go to both directions, then add movement where you can take a couple of steps to the side and he will follow the hand. Repeat ad nauseum.
Once he has learned not to snap, and how to follow a hand lure, then put it all together and work on the heel position. Gotta do the foundation work first.
To teach him not to snap at treats, hold a treat in your fingers and hold it down at his level. He will try to nipple the treat out of your fingers ("mugging"), but hold the treat firm and don't let him get it. Just keep your hand still and wait him out. The second that he stops nibbling at your fingers, pop the treat in his mouth. Repeat ad nauseum. Eventually he will learn that he only gets the treat when he doesn't snap at it.
For teaching a hand lure. Hold a treat between your thumb and finger, stretching your other fingers out flat. Hold your hand down to his level and move it to the side saying "here". When he follows your hand, reward with the treat. Go to both directions, then add movement where you can take a couple of steps to the side and he will follow the hand. Repeat ad nauseum.
Once he has learned not to snap, and how to follow a hand lure, then put it all together and work on the heel position. Gotta do the foundation work first.
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
Great advice, GeeRome!
I'll try to teach him a hand lure. But there is something I think I must tell first.
Before I teach him heel, I try to teach him to wait until I say, "take it", before he can have his treat/meal.
And the way I teach him is, when I say sit, he have to sit and wait until I say take it before he can take the treat. Then I slowly bring the treat closer to him, if he try to move toward the food before I say take it, I will withdrawn the treat.
Well he never try to snatch the treat when I told him to sit and down. He will looking the treat and wait until I say take it or I put the treat to his mouth (I'm not as consistent as I want).
But when I try to teach him heel, he sit/down (waiting for treat) then as I try to lure him with the treat, he try to stay in his position. Now I say, "heel, heel" repetitively while he looking at me and the treat as I try to lure him with the treat. For me it seems like he confuse about what I really want. Unsure between waiting for "take it" and the treat.
Then finally he decide to jump and try to take the treat. Since he finally end up in heel position, I decide to give him the treat. But since then, he always jump and try to snatch the treat before end at heel position.
So do you think the command take it before give the food is the one that ruin the hand lure?
Before I teach him heel, I try to teach him to wait until I say, "take it", before he can have his treat/meal.
And the way I teach him is, when I say sit, he have to sit and wait until I say take it before he can take the treat. Then I slowly bring the treat closer to him, if he try to move toward the food before I say take it, I will withdrawn the treat.
Well he never try to snatch the treat when I told him to sit and down. He will looking the treat and wait until I say take it or I put the treat to his mouth (I'm not as consistent as I want).
But when I try to teach him heel, he sit/down (waiting for treat) then as I try to lure him with the treat, he try to stay in his position. Now I say, "heel, heel" repetitively while he looking at me and the treat as I try to lure him with the treat. For me it seems like he confuse about what I really want. Unsure between waiting for "take it" and the treat.
Then finally he decide to jump and try to take the treat. Since he finally end up in heel position, I decide to give him the treat. But since then, he always jump and try to snatch the treat before end at heel position.
So do you think the command take it before give the food is the one that ruin the hand lure?