How would you handle this?

Decelerate to collect, wrap with arm/hand low so as not to cue the dog to take the jump, and use eye contact. I would not make the cross... why burn yardage in this situation when you don't need to? And, by front crossing, and then having to rear cross the tunnel, you're just creating more work for your dog... and I think staying on the same side presents the nicer line for the dog, and there's no need for a lead change for the dog. If I have a dog with a tendency to want to go out and take stuff, a name check would also come into play (the number of decel cues depends on the dog), and then accelerate and send to the tunnel.
On your first video: you mention the wide turn. I think the reason it is happening is with the cross you are making, you are giving her yardage and she is taking it. I think the wrap with decel and no forward until she has taken the jump, collected, and turned would help to tighten her up. Also, I can't tell from the video because of the angle, but be careful of how much forward you give by how much arm you use to send. You'll also want to experiment to find Lexi's commitment point. If it's very early (and I assume it is), you need to start your decel earlier to get her to collect so she doesn't waste yardage. Those are things Linda Robertson pointed out to me when I went to Murfreesboro for a private lesson with her recently. I was having problems with wide jumping... and those were some of the things that helped to fix it. Immediately I saw improvement.
In the second video, you need to send earlier so you can be further down stream to make the push a little more seemlessly. If you were ahead more, you wouldn't really have the tunnel entrance open as an option, as you would already be around and pushing out for the tunnel.I think it would be a good choice on course if you are pushing for time, as the first option you tried burns more time, while due to the push over the bar, you would be saving yards by making your dog collect more. This second option, if you needed to get downstream quickly would allow you to be in a better position to get there more quickly (but again, you've got to be on it, and ahead. Otherwise, you aren't saving the time/yardage you're pushing for).
That option on video two would also depend on what works for you and your dog. My Athena will burn less yardage, and drive better with the push than playing around with crosses and wraps. I can FORCE a tighter path with the push. I can FORCE her to collect more. The reason is that I can be ON the bar there, and it's either collect, or take the bar or land on me. You need to experiment and find out what your strengths and weaknesses are to see what's most effective... and then train the ones that aren't nearly as strong. All skills will eventually have their place on course.
We did something similar at Linda's where there was a two jump serpentine headed slightly back toward the first of the two jumps down a straight line of jumps to a tunnel entrance kicked out kind of like the set up in the video with the entrance almost directly in front of the line of jumps. The push was the best way to get ahead and get downstream to keep them out of the wrong tunnel entrance, and beat them down the line.

I am glad you chimed in. I was hoping you'd see it from a different perspective--it's cool to compare/contrast styles.

I have really been struggling with Lexi's commitment point. Sometimes I'm inclined to believe that it changes every time (I know that sounds weird). I edited that video you saw and removed all the mistakes...but there were times where I tried to decel earlier, and she would pull of the jump completely. All in all, we're definitely still learning to read each other.

And as I mentioned in response to Cheryl, in Option B I realize that my positioning wasn't great. I should have been farther forward and moving, but I was sort of exaggerating to get the collection that Lexi struggles with.
 
I just have to pop in and tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread! I don't know beans about agility, but I can see where that exercise would be challenging, and it's really neat to see how different people with different dogs would approach it to maximize efficiency. Very cool!

Glad you're enjoying it! I did too, actually!

I'd love to see more "How would you handle this" type things...I like to get out in the yard and try different approaches.

Anyone else want to start a thread with one? :biggrin2:
 
Have you tried giving her a strong verbal, and making sure to keep your shoulders forward?
What was recommended to me to find commitment point was to set up a tunnel and jump and gradually increase how soon you decelerate coming up to the jump. Experiment to find how soon you need to decelerate to get her to take the jump but not go wide.
I'd also make sure to go back and work forward and lateral sends with her.
Part of her committment point not being solid right now may just be that she's still a green dog. Greenies are constantly changing and and green dogs generally aren't going to be as confidence as their more experienced counterparts. I would really think a strong verbal and shoulders forward should help.
Also, I'd work on finding out generally how many forward and how many turning cues she generally needs. Balanced dogs are typically 3 and 3. Some need 4 forward, 2 turning (my Aurora), some 2 forward, 4 turning (a friends BC Cruiser comes to mind). It's a good thing to know, and can help to plan what would be appropriate for each individual dog
 
I am glad you chimed in. I was hoping you'd see it from a different perspective--it's cool to compare/contrast styles.

I have really been struggling with Lexi's commitment point. Sometimes I'm inclined to believe that it changes every time (I know that sounds weird). I edited that video you saw and removed all the mistakes...but there were times where I tried to decel earlier, and she would pull of the jump completely. All in all, we're definitely still learning to read each other.

And as I mentioned in response to Cheryl, in Option B I realize that my positioning wasn't great. I should have been farther forward and moving, but I was sort of exaggerating to get the collection that Lexi struggles with.

I think Diva and Lexi are alot alike. I am also struggling with Diva's commitment point sometimes it seems very early and sometimes late. It changes I think based on what she can and can not see beyond the jump. It it is a corner or against the side of the ring with nothing in her vision she commits late. It seems I can pull her off so easily in those situations.

I have also been struggling with wide turns maybe as Stacey sadi I giving too much yardage to her. I would have run it like Sheri first posted. Definitely with Ember. Probably with Diva would it work is the question.:smile2:
 
I have also been struggling with wide turns maybe as Stacey sadi I giving too much yardage to her.

What I'm always told is the dog gets the same amount of inches to land as the height they jump... so a 12" jump height sheltie only needs 12", and a 16" jump height sheltie only 16".
You may find dogs who aren't used to being made to collect will protest, refuse, and/or run around jumps... My Kai would tell me off when I first stopped giving her extra yardage. She is more than capable of collecting and landing in the space I give her.... she just doesn't like it. It's so much easier to just extend over everything and land as long as she pleases :x
 
What I'm always told is the dog gets the same amount of inches to land as the height they jump... so a 12" jump height sheltie only needs 12", and a 16" jump height sheltie only 16".
You may find dogs who aren't used to being made to collect will protest, refuse, and/or run around jumps... My Kai would tell me off when I first stopped giving her extra yardage. She is more than capable of collecting and landing in the space I give her.... she just doesn't like it. It's so much easier to just extend over everything and land as long as she pleases :x

Yes, the definition of "true collection" is height = take off distance = landing distance...but true collection is hard to come by!

Lexi did (and does) the same as Kai when forced to collect. When we first worked foundation recall to heel position Lexi would go under the jump bar, around the jump, jump in front of me (diving) or behind me (swinging) all to keep from having to collect.

Have you tried giving her a strong verbal, and making sure to keep your shoulders forward?
What was recommended to me to find commitment point was to set up a tunnel and jump and gradually increase how soon you decelerate coming up to the jump. Experiment to find how soon you need to decelerate to get her to take the jump but not go wide.
I'd also make sure to go back and work forward and lateral sends with her.
Part of her committment point not being solid right now may just be that she's still a green dog. Greenies are constantly changing and and green dogs generally aren't going to be as confidence as their more experienced counterparts. I would really think a strong verbal and shoulders forward should help.
Also, I'd work on finding out generally how many forward and how many turning cues she generally needs. Balanced dogs are typically 3 and 3. Some need 4 forward, 2 turning (my Aurora), some 2 forward, 4 turning (a friends BC Cruiser comes to mind). It's a good thing to know, and can help to plan what would be appropriate for each individual dog

Not only is Lexi a green dog, but we literally just learned a lot of the vocabulary you just used (forward and lateral sends, the different turning cues, the idea of keeping shoulders forward) in the past month. Prior to our most recent classes we had never done ANY of those things.

So 1, I'm sure I'm doing them wrong, and 2, if I happen to do it right, Lexi is not always sure to read them correctly.
 
Yes, the definition of "true collection" is height = take off distance = landing distance...but true collection is hard to come by!

Lexi did (and does) the same as Kai when forced to collect. When we first worked foundation recall to heel position Lexi would go under the jump bar, around the jump, jump in front of me (diving) or behind me (swinging) all to keep from having to collect.



Not only is Lexi a green dog, but we literally just learned a lot of the vocabulary you just used (forward and lateral sends, the different turning cues, the idea of keeping shoulders forward) in the past month. Prior to our most recent classes we had never done ANY of those things.

So 1, I'm sure I'm doing them wrong, and 2, if I happen to do it right, Lexi is not always sure to read them correctly.

we're still learning all that too. I see people do stuff but don't know what it's called. I need to finish reading some of the basic books that I got so I know more of what we need to practice :wink2:
 
My first thought would be to scream "HERE!!!" and turn my back to the tunnel just as the dog commits to the 3rd jump. :lol: My dogs are faster than me. I should hit the gym. I'll try to set this up and see what the dogs (and I!) do!
 
I have a fast dog, so my personal training rule is simple: If I am trying to get from Point A to Point B, I have to take the shortest possible route, with the least number of turns and changes of direction, in order to be where I need to be when my dog reaches point B. I think I would have used the method in your second video (that replicated what you did in class) for a slower dog who needed tons of physical cues. I may also have used it if I had to get far ahead of my dog for the obstacles after the tunnel, but in that case I would send him out after the jump (#4) and keep running to the left.

It is good to try tons of different methods - every single one presents a challenge. I like this thread!
 
I'd love to see more "How would you handle this" type things...I like to get out in the yard and try different approaches.

Anyone else want to start a thread with one? :biggrin2:

If we have something crazy in class today, or something I had to really work at (holy smokes, time to get out of here to go to class) I'll post tomorrow. :)
 
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