BarbV
Forums Celebrity
Thanks, Randi! I was trying to find the words to respond but you found them for me!
I am spitting bullets here! Toy Shelties? Bah!
- Thread starter BarbV
- Start date
Thanks, Randi! I was trying to find the words to respond but you found them for me!
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
I was re-reading this post and decided that there was lots of truth in just about everyone's answer.
I'm want to try to summarize it here, the feedback from the forum:
1) Companion dogs (i.e. toys) have long been recognized as true breeds as they were bred over a long term for that purpose....good example would be a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (that's my example)
2) Crazy fads (i.e. toy Yorkies have created dogs which weight about the size of a gerbil.....e.g. 3 lbs). These should never be recognized as breed standard
3) Over the long term, you could breed Shelties into lapdogs (i.e. minatures), but it would take a long time to breed out their original herding instinct. The point was made though that miniature poodles still are poodles - they look the same and act the same (I think that means they are in proportion vs. mini-Shelties which are not in proportion). So what would be the purpose of a mini herding dog? Just asking!
4) I raised the question of health issues related to trying to breed toy sized Shelties. A point was raised that full-sized Shelties have health issues that appear to be somewhat congenital to the breed. Good point!
But I think Danisgoat summed it up best.....you can play around with breeds that that have been around for 100's of years (e.g. poodles, spaniels) but Shelties are still a young breed. It's too early to messing with them to breed other types. Even Aussies are older than Shelties, so perhaps the time was right to start experimenting.....
Fascinating discussion, people!
I'm want to try to summarize it here, the feedback from the forum:
1) Companion dogs (i.e. toys) have long been recognized as true breeds as they were bred over a long term for that purpose....good example would be a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (that's my example)
2) Crazy fads (i.e. toy Yorkies have created dogs which weight about the size of a gerbil.....e.g. 3 lbs). These should never be recognized as breed standard
3) Over the long term, you could breed Shelties into lapdogs (i.e. minatures), but it would take a long time to breed out their original herding instinct. The point was made though that miniature poodles still are poodles - they look the same and act the same (I think that means they are in proportion vs. mini-Shelties which are not in proportion). So what would be the purpose of a mini herding dog? Just asking!
4) I raised the question of health issues related to trying to breed toy sized Shelties. A point was raised that full-sized Shelties have health issues that appear to be somewhat congenital to the breed. Good point!
But I think Danisgoat summed it up best.....you can play around with breeds that that have been around for 100's of years (e.g. poodles, spaniels) but Shelties are still a young breed. It's too early to messing with them to breed other types. Even Aussies are older than Shelties, so perhaps the time was right to start experimenting.....
Fascinating discussion, people!
Danny's mommy
Forums Enthusiast
Just had to post this. I saw an advertisement for mini shelties and it said mature weight will be 5 - 10 lbs. That is really impossible for a sheltie to be so small full grown.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
I wouldn't say it is that far fetched, though the likelihood of them being able to predict that given the inconsistency in sheltie size is unlikely.
I have a friend who bred two normal in size shelties and would up with a 10" sheltie, who could potentially be at or under 10 pounds. After all my Athena is 13.25" and weighs 13.5 pounds.
I have a friend who bred two normal in size shelties and would up with a 10" sheltie, who could potentially be at or under 10 pounds. After all my Athena is 13.25" and weighs 13.5 pounds.
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
yeah, but that's not the ideal, right?
I can get that some litters don't work out, but I definitely have a problem with breeding to mini-Shelties. And I know that many are doing it.
Wrong, in my view.
I can get that some litters don't work out, but I definitely have a problem with breeding to mini-Shelties. And I know that many are doing it.
Wrong, in my view.
marymrumfelt
Forums Enthusiast
I would have agreed and thought the same thing....until I met one. I was at the farmers market two weeks ago and met one. She was two years old and around 6lbs. oddest thing ever -- looked like a sheltie/had the pom looking face but sheltie coloring/silky coat... so odd. I couldn't stop staring at it. It was nuts. They do exist, trust me. Oh, I should add it was very short, too. Like a few inches tall. Truly mini and truly disturbing.
HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
I never said it was. Just that it is possible. I approve of minis no more than anyone else.
I'm so glad this fad hasn't started over here in the uk and Ireland, or at least it has gone unnoticed. Although we do breed them smaller over here anyway with the more of a pom face than a rough collie one (though not an actual pom face, that would look awful) so maybe people think there is less need. Seriously, shelties are described as mini-Lassies to people who don't know the breed, why would you get a mini of a mini? They are small enough as it is, to me the perfect size, they can sit on you lap and be very much the indoor dog but they are still big enough to herd sheep and be a working dog.
I know that a lot of breeds have toy versions that are perfectly healthy (or at least as healthy as any breed can be) but was that not done over a very long period of time? Slowly producing smaller and smaller dogs instead of just runt with runt?
Though reading all this is getting me all interested in where our wonderful breed came from. I'm going to have to have to read the book Shetland Sheepdogs by Jan Moody, its meant to be the definitive guide to sheltie history in the uk. My mum is forever talking about it
I know that a lot of breeds have toy versions that are perfectly healthy (or at least as healthy as any breed can be) but was that not done over a very long period of time? Slowly producing smaller and smaller dogs instead of just runt with runt?
Though reading all this is getting me all interested in where our wonderful breed came from. I'm going to have to have to read the book Shetland Sheepdogs by Jan Moody, its meant to be the definitive guide to sheltie history in the uk. My mum is forever talking about it
KarenCurtis
Forums Sage
teacup shelties- really?
I hate to even think this is happening!!!!! I know I am bringing it up again, but this is what I saw on a "breeding" toy sheltie website, which I will not name"
"This will be our first litter with 'teacup' sized parents on both sides!!! This may be the first litter of two unrelated parents that makes producing 10"/5-8lbs puppies predictable!!!! It is possible the puppies will be too tiny to survive, but it is also possible it could work and you could have the tiniest, most gorgeous sable pocket sheltie ever offered to the public!"
Yes, that is an actual statement from this site. I sent them an email, but it won't do anything.
I hate to even think this is happening!!!!! I know I am bringing it up again, but this is what I saw on a "breeding" toy sheltie website, which I will not name"
"This will be our first litter with 'teacup' sized parents on both sides!!! This may be the first litter of two unrelated parents that makes producing 10"/5-8lbs puppies predictable!!!! It is possible the puppies will be too tiny to survive, but it is also possible it could work and you could have the tiniest, most gorgeous sable pocket sheltie ever offered to the public!"
Yes, that is an actual statement from this site. I sent them an email, but it won't do anything.
BarbV
Forums Celebrity
I'm horrified by this! They may not be puppy mill so not subject to being raided by the SPCA, but I would report them anyway to be put on watch. You might also want to alert any rescue agencies in your area. Sometimes they have resources available to them to help prevent future breedings such as this.