Is Frontline no good for Shelties???

LolasMommy said:
Thanks everyone. I thought it was a bit extreme of her to say that, but I thought I'd ask about it anyway. Supposedly a friend of hers has a sheltie and according to her, after the sheltie was given frontline it started experiencing seizures. I don't know if it just happend to be a coincidence or what. But She seemed to have a pretty firm belief that it was true. Isn't frontline only known to maybe cause seizures if the animal injests it orally/if it isn't administered in the proper area (between the shoulderblades)? I'm going to try to shy away from flea preventatives anyway, unless she absolutely needs it if she gets fleas or something. My other sheltie used to have extremely sensitive and flaky skin (she also had a bad flea problem for a good while, so I had no choice but to use it on her), but I'd hate to think that frontline was the cause of it. Lola is on sentinel now for heartworm prevention, and since sentinel also makes any flea that might be living on her infertile, that will hopefully do the trick.
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I wouldn't be too sure of that. My Pixie had seizures for as long as I used Frontline on her. We still aren't sure that wasn't what caused them. I haven't used it in two years and she's been seizure free. The problem is that they can have a reaction from any of the chemical products, you just don't know. I only use natural stuff now on Pixie but my other two are on Advantix and I'm still nervous about it.
 
Thanks Ann..

Fortunately Lola hasn't had a big flea problem yet.. But if she ends up with a flea outbreak what are some natural and effective things that you would recommend?
 
I've been using Nature's Defense on Pixie. It's quite inexpensive and is made from cloves and other natural oils. Smells strong when you first put it on but the smell dissipates after a day or so. The downside is some dogs don't like it and react poorly.

What I've found that I'm totally surprised works was recommended by someone here on the Forum -- for both ticks and fleas. Mix one part apple cider vinegar to three parts water, put in a spray bottle and spritz the dog daily (or as often as you need to). The smell is not offensive, the dogs love it (they're always licking it) and it works! I spray mine daily, brush it in a bit and we haven't seen a tick or flea in a month. I'm a believer. Wish I could remember who recommended this...a huge thank you!
 
Frontline has been known to cause seizures in some dogs, and even lack of nerve sensitivity in others. When I was doing research on Romeo's hind leg problem (it's a nerve thing), I came across people who told me their experiences with Frontline (and how the symptoms came on shortly after using it and went away when they stopped), and stopped using frontline since. The drug can affect the nervous system but maybe more so on some dogs than others?
 
LolasMommy said:
Thanks everyone. I thought it was a bit extreme of her to say that, but I thought I'd ask about it anyway. Supposedly a friend of hers has a sheltie and according to her, after the sheltie was given frontline it started experiencing seizures.
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We stopped putting Frontline on rescues when we had one seize from it (within 20 minutes, so we pretty much knew what it was). I use Advantage on one dog whose reaction is more severe to fleas than to the topicals. The rest of the dogs fend for themselves.

If you really want to scare yourself, here is information from the Frontline Plus MSDS: https://www.accessbutler.com/msdsimages/A0000792.pdf

R 10 Flammable.
R 22 Harmful if swallowed.
R 51 Toxic to aquatic organisms.
R 57 Toxic to bees.

First Aid Measures (human):
Involve doctor immediately.
· After inhalation: Seek immediate medical advice.
· After skin contact: Immediately wash with water and soap and rinse thoroughly.
· After eye contact:
Rinse opened eye for a minimum of 15 minutes under running water. If symptoms occur, consult a doctor.
· After swallowing:
Immediately call a doctor.
Induce vomiting, if person is conscious. Seek medical help.
 
Ok, we're getting just a wee tad little bit over the top here, folks.
On balance, Frontline is a remarkably safe and effective medication, the risk/reward ratio being very low.
Ever see those commercials for the gentle sleep aid, anti-depressant, anti-heartburn whatever drug, where the happy people play with butterflies and then the announcer comes on and says 'may cause stroke, deafness, kidney failure and sudden death.'? and you think 'Why does anyone ever use them?' because medications that work, that have a physiological effect, have the potential for adverse effects. There are no disclaimers necessary for bogus 'this is not a drug' 'medications' because they don't do anything.

Here's a quiz - what deadly toxic medication is this the MSDS for - note 'TOXIC. Harmful if swallowed.' Why would anyone ever risk taking such a dangerous drug?

==Section 3 - Hazards Identification
EMERGENCY OVERVIEW
Appearance: white. May cause skin irritation. Causes respiratory tract irritation. May cause respiratory and digestive tract irritation. May cause severe eye irritation and possible injury. Warning! Toxic. Harmful if swallowed.
Target Organs: Blood.

Potential Health Effects
Eye: May cause eye irritation and possible burns.
Skin: May cause skin irritation. Low hazard for usual industrial handling. Chronic ingestion may result in salicylism which is characterized by nausea, vomiting, gastrointestinal ulcers, and hemorrhagic strokes.
Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal irritation with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Inhibits platelet aggregation affecting bleeding time.
Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation. Can produce anaphylactic shock with even small doses.
Chronic: Chronic ingestion may result in salicylism which is characterized by nausea, vomiting, gastrointestinal ulcers, and hemorrhagic strokes.==
- Dr. Mac
 
The Quahog said:
There are no disclaimers necessary for bogus 'this is not a drug' 'medications' because they don't do anything.
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Wait, no MSDS on one part Nux Vomica per ocean? /sarcasm

Even my favorite cure all - Diatomaceous Earth has an MSDS (which amuses me greatly):

The substance may be toxic to lungs, upper respiratory tract. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

Small Spill:
Use appropriate tools to put the spilled solid in a convenient waste disposal container. Finish cleaning by spreading water on the contaminated surface and dispose of according to local and regional authority requirements.

Large Spill:
Use a shovel to put the material into a convenient waste disposal container. Finish cleaning by spreading water on the contaminated surface and allow to evacuate through the sanitary system.

At least it's not flammable or explosive.
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
Wait, no MSDS on one part Nux Vomica per ocean? /sarcasm
.
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Sure there is. :yes:
Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Eye contact. Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals: Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 2 mg/kg [Rat].
Chronic Effects on Humans:
Causes damage to the following organs: the nervous system. May cause damage to the following organs: heart, central
nervous system (CNS).
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Extremely hazardous in case of inhalation. Very hazardous in case of ingestion. Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans: Not available.

For those not in on this little inside joke, nux vomica is strychnine,the deadly poison.

==Medical uses
There are no uses in modern medicine, although it was widely used in medicine before World War II. Strychnine is a deadly poison with a lethal dose to humans of about 30 to 120 mg. (Wikipedia) ==

Indeed, back in the Dark Ages when I graduated from veterinary school large animal practitioners not only used strychnine as an appetite stimulant, sadly it was still used as a (very inhumane) euthanasia agent.

Oddly, however, what goes around comes around, it is now one of the most widely used medications in homeopathy: http://www.elixirs.com/nux.cfm

On a more personal note, as it is difficult to pick up 'tone' on message boards, let me mention that while Rachael and I often represent opposing viewpoints,lest anyone think there is any personal 'feud' I do appreciate her posts, input, and measured tone.
Discussions such as this on, say, the Lab Chat or other boards tend to be far less civil. -Dr. Mac
 
Frontline may cause reactions if dogs, but the Sheltie sensitivity thing has to do with certain heartworm medications. Perhaps they meant Revolution as that has the heartworm meds that could cause a reaction.
 
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