Is it time to medicate?

I'm sorry you are going through this. Sandstorm has a bit of this, not nearly as much- we don't live in a city, however! SS is teritorial, and when off his (or what he thinks is his) property he is better with the barking/growling. We are working on this and I will be interested to see your future posts after you see a trainer. I empathize with the embarrasment. SS barked right in my neighbors face last week and I sent an apology card to her. SS thought she was on our property. He also has his tail up quite often! Good luck and know that we all think you are a good, responsible dog mom.
 
I'm sorry, I did not read all the threads and all the advice....I jumped to the end.

I think that medicating your pup is a bad idea. I truly think that somewhere, out there, there is a training technique that will get her settled.

I don't have any magic answers, books, or trainers to recommend, but my gut just says this can be cured without drugs.

Stay strong and hold the course. Re-evaluate what you've tried and what had small successes and build on those.

In my world, I'm slowly getting Indy to be less agressive along the fence line. I think he's starting to learn that a quick bark alert is enough.

Now I just have to get him to stop chasing down human son every morning as he gets ready for school.
 
Our local tv station just did a segment on Thundershirts. Many dogs with problems exactly like yours benefited immensely when they wore the Thundershirt. I think finding a good trainer is first but maybe the thunder shirt will ease the anxiety. You never know. Good luck.
 
Barb,
there is few keys why Bailey is beyond just training IMHO. Important to notice- once she is in her mode she won't take treats, i.e. she easily goes into pink zone where no training can be done. She obviously born as very high drive dog. SG mentions when she writes about life with Buzzy, her maniac BC that she never seen him laying down until he was about 20 weeks old. It took professional dog trainer of SG magnitude to live with Buzzy and make him a champion- Shaping success book is great describing lots of games and training SG did with the dog that taught SG that there are some dogs with too much drive...
Randi describes Bailey as dog that would go 24/7 which means that her turn off switch is very high and rarely reachable.
Bailey appear highly auditory sensitive and rarely can relax which is really hard on herding dogs that already have high motion sensitivity- double whammy is tough. Leo had similar period of reactivity from about 6 month old till he hit a year, lunging, barking, chasing, reacting to every sound- it was very tough so I understand embarrassment. Except Leo was born and as a puppy he was perfect, dream to train and joy to be with. He is becoming this way again after long 6 months of tough living. I think Lactium will help to keep Bailey at the level when sounds won't be so threatening to her so she will be able to relax some. Thundershirt did nothing for Leo. Gentle leader helped as it cut time spent looking at distraction. Once I had Lactium on board, applying Social Pressure helped i.e. once I seen Leo lunging I would "herd" or block him and put my body forward into his space with mean facial expression and ask for a sit... then relax my body back, smile and jackpot with treats when he stops and sits.
Ignoring barking and lunging makes it worse... it is like a theater... rehearsal makes for a brilliant performance and Bailey sure gets a lots of rehearsals. I know it sound difficult but if you want to stop unwanted behavior you have to stop self reinforcement.
Few things I would spend my money on- Full MI state k9 thyroid panel, which sent to Dr Dodds. If you just did T4 it might not be enough. Sometimes it is hard to dx thyroid issues so might need to be repeated.
Possibility of daycare even half day few times a week? Dog park with full out runs for an hour every morning? I also had help of terrific dog trainers behaviorists, trained by Susanne Clothier so I know it works.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the support everyone. I really appreciate it. :biggrin2: There have been times when she can be very hard to handle and I thought she would be better off in a home with a more experienced owner, but Bailey absolutely adores me and I adore her. I will do everything I can to help her.

Danny's Mom, I have a thundershirt and it doesn't make a difference for Bailey. I've also tried Rescue Remedy and that's made no difference.

I received the Lactium pills in the mail today and will give it a try on Monday. I'm going to start with half a pill for a few days. Just want to make sure it doesn't upset her stomach.
 
I failed to mention that my Danny Boy has some of the same behavior problems. He hates dogs, most of them, and does not care for people. I tend to walk him when I know there won't be much traffic both dog and people. I know it can be embarrassing especially when Danny starts looking like Cujo when he spots or hears a dog. Danny doesn't react so much when my husband walks him. I haven't figured that out yet. Like you we aren't going to dump the dog because of these problems and we continue to work with him ourselves as we live in a semi rural area. Good luck.
 
I feel for you, I do think some of it is a sheltie issue, or a working dog thing. Some of our shelties just still seem to have a lot of the sheepdog drive and energy. Deska does a lot of these behaviours and Tully used to and like Ashley I'm lucky we don't live in a busy city. I used a vet behaviourist regularly when they were at the worst and it was a life saver. The one I saw charged normal vet consult fees so $420 seems steep - is that for a home visit? Definately shop around. The vet I used was recommended by the trainers at the local RSPCA - maybe you could contact your equivalent and see if they know any with more reasonable rates. At least with a vet behaviourist you can talk about whether medications would help.
 
I think you're all right that Bailey's behavior is not that uncommon for a sheltie, but since we live in the city, we have to deal with it every time we go out. I don't have a yard, so she has to be walked at least 4 times a day.

I received the Lactium and we'll try it on Monday. I want to try and record some of her behavior for the trainer before I start the Lactium.

I did switch her to a martingale last night and have been bringing my clicker on walks again. I very proud to say that this morning Bailey saw a little dog and did not lunge and bark! She looked at me and I kept feeding her treats! I'm so happy.

Last night was another story. The skateboarders were out and Bailey immediately went into crazy mode. I had to hold her and she was lunging and barking in my arms. Then I put her down and a girl jokingly ran by and Bailey lunged for her. I was able to get Bailey to calm down a little and then we ran into a Bloodhound that was also a little reactive. Definitely was not a good walk.
 
Danny's mommy said:
I failed to mention that my Danny Boy has some of the same behavior problems. He hates dogs, most of them, and does not care for people. I tend to walk him when I know there won't be much traffic both dog and people. I know it can be embarrassing especially when Danny starts looking like Cujo when he spots or hears a dog. Danny doesn't react so much when my husband walks him. I haven't figured that out yet. Like you we aren't going to dump the dog because of these problems and we continue to work with him ourselves as we live in a semi rural area. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Danny Boy sounds a lot like our Mally. Regarding Danny not reacting so much with your husband walking him, might by like with Mally. Mally seems to think I need "more" protecting than Don. We figured that's why he "acts up" more when he is walking with me. (Mally is more protective of me).
 
Your description of Bailey is so familiar that it is scary. I applaud you in consulting with the most experienced / effective people that you can, whether formally or informally, to come up with a plan that is appropriate for your situation and for Bailey's temperament.

I finally spoke with my vet this summer about reactivity and medication, then followed up w three trainers locally that know Snap from the various classes that we have done / do.

My vet is reluctant to prescribe any medication, believing that it is to be used a last resort. Among other things, he suggested that as positive as I am, I may have actually confused my dog regarding the "corrections" that I do. While I didn't want to hear this, the conversation and subsequent discussions did prompt me to do a lot of soul searching and to rethink training methods, reinforcement rates, techniques for dealing with leash reactivity, impulse control, what I want from my dog, and what is good for my dog. **

I thought that the answer might lie with consultation with a vet behaviorist, but I frankly was dissuaded by one of the trainers in going this route. *She accompanied a client to see one at a vet school a few years ago and frankly found the advice to be very expensive and not worth the cost.

For now, I am revisiting some of my favorite booklets (Suzanne Clothier) and DVDs *(Patricia McConnell's "Treating Dog-Dog Reactivity" *and Grisha Stewart's "Organic Socialization) and working on making tiny improvements in management / retraining behaviors - habits. *Incidentally, I also have the Manners Minder and have successfully used mine at the office to reverse reactive behavior (when the front door opens, Snap now runs for his bed where the Manners Minder is, instead of barking at the intruder).

In lackadaisical hands, Snap might have ended up in rescue. *In my relatively inexperienced hands, this smart, "overdrive" dog (at age 3 1/2) is still a work in progress. *And by the way, I would not give up on Therapy Dog work. *Snap is a therapy dog with a large repertoire of tricks and the drive to do them. I have no doubt that Bailey could do the same.

I'm so sorry that you don't live closer... I'd recruit you to join my Sunday morning breakfast dog-folks group. *It's our own form of therapy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top