Koji goes "on patrol", help!

[k9kreationz]

Behaviorist trainer that I work with is not supportive with this LAT thing as with CU training in general. She thinks that LAT is only useful when you can work your dog under threshold but with herding breeds and their motion/ staring issues they are just about over threshold any time they out of the house Just because dog is not lunging yet does not mean their arousal is not too high so you pairing up high arousal with cue and treat.

Well, it does say in the CU book that you need to work them under threshold. However, that doesn't mean just because it's a herding breed that they are over threshold just because they see things moving.

I think your trainer needs to stop generalizing breeds. But then, I guess that means CU wouldn't work for any sort of working type breed (terriers, spaniels, retrievers, etc), because they ALL have issues that will probably take them over threshold.

I believe a good trainer should have many tools to work with. I agree, lunging doesn't mean over threshold, but at the same time, standing and staring doesn't mean over threshold either.

 

[SheltieChe]

I have been thinking that we love our performance dogs and spend a lot of time training them to get high, to run faster, to rev up and then we surprised when they go on high alert at moment notice. Have been experimenting with arousal levels and coming to conclusions that most people do not spend nearly enough time to teach dog " chill" skill. And what exactly " chill" skill means... like when I get my dog high and then want him to chill what exactly I would see?
Anyway just my musings... don't have any good solutions to living in high stress areas.
cept one of the trainers I deeply respect and who teaches plain basic obedience class to pet people. On his first class with dogs/ second, because first one does not include dogs/ at the beginning of class you can see all that chaos, 20 dogs tearing out leashes, exalted breathing both humans and animals... then he starts, first thing he teaches people to get on the floor and do some massage with their furry partners... you gotta see the change in the room... can hear a pin dropping, everyone suddenly relaxed, breathing deeply, smiling, doggies are resting. Good skill to keep in mind.
Was wondering if possible to find some quiet spot in those busy areas during patrol walks and just do some light session of meditation?

 

[k9kreationz]

Interestingly, I do exactly the opposite of what you have stated. And it's why I always say that every dog is different. I don't rev Koji up or get him high and get him drivey, nope, I calm him down. My crazy dog can't seem to think and be high at the same time. When he's relaxed, he runs faster, focuses better, and we get some awesome runs.

I've also done a CU class and we learn T-Touch in it. All the other dogs and owners looked so peaceful. Nope, not Koji. He couldn't relax. Even the instructor tried, nope. She had me work on something else to help relax him (he seemed to be more relaxed working and doing "go to your mat" - which if I thought about it now, it's what calms him down now too, lol).

Maybe something like T-Touch will work for other dogs here, so keep tossing out suggestions. I just know what hasn't worked for Koji.

 

[Sheltiesr2cute]

I'm sorry but I don't know the answer, as we have the same problem with Charlotte, except once she starts it signals the other two to start up as well. It's so bad we don't walk them together. Thankfully we live in the country with only minimal traffic, and large fenced in yard.

Becky Mom of Bristol, Charlotte and Phoenix

 

[corbinam]

I have been thinking that we love our performance dogs and spend a lot of time training them to get high, to run faster, to rev up and then we surprised when they go on high alert at moment notice. Have been experimenting with arousal levels and coming to conclusions that most people do not spend nearly enough time to teach dog " chill" skill. And what exactly " chill" skill means... like when I get my dog high and then want him to chill what exactly I would see?

I tend to disagree with this theory, too.

We brought Bentley home at 7 months and he was a couch potato. He knew nothing of agility or working of any kind. He was a very relaxed guy--and his favorite thing to do was to lay on the couch or on the bed. We also encouraged this by teaching him to settle, go to his mat, etc...

He was barking and lunging from Day 1! Take him away from his threshold, and he's back to being the best walker (never pulls, EVER!), couch potato, relaxer.

It wasn't until a year or so later that we decided to teach him drive and excitement. It took a long time, and he was slow to excite (he wouldn't go for the target plate at first because he thought he couldn't have it since we restrained him to rev him up!)

Lexi is the opposite. She is full of excitement and drive and we encouraged it. However, she can snap out of any patrol she may find herself on.

 

[k9kreationz]

I'm sorry but I don't know the answer, as we have the same problem with Charlotte, except once she starts it signals the other two to start up as well. It's so bad we don't walk them together. Thankfully we live in the country with only minimal traffic, and large fenced in yard.

Becky Mom of Bristol, Charlotte and Phoenix

Oh, you have to love when they feed off of one another. Ugh! Thankfully, my other Sheltie isn't reactive. I just wish the reactive one could feed off the calm one. Sheesh!

BTW, love your user name. It's so true!

 

[DPSheltie]

I have been thinking that we love our performance dogs and spend a lot of time training them to get high, to run faster, to rev up and then we surprised when they go on high alert at moment notice. Have been experimenting with arousal levels and coming to conclusions that most people do not spend nearly enough time to teach dog " chill" skill. And what exactly " chill" skill means... like when I get my dog high and then want him to chill what exactly I would see?

We have never had to get Riley rev'd up. We are the ones in class working on focus and CALM (hand touches, sits, relaxation, lots of focus on me work) in order to de-energize him!!! We actually do agility to give Riley a constructive outlet for his drive (and tricks and obedience work ) Yet he is still reactive, even though we work with him every day (LOTS of long walks, frisbee, ball, training, etc).

I did get a nice compliment from my trainer the other day. She works with reactive dogs professionally and has a reactive BC, so she knows what I am dealing with. She told me that we're doing really good with him, considering that if he had been in a "normal" home he would have been put into a rescue a while ago due to his high drive and reactiveness! I guess we are doing something right then, even though it is massively frustrating dealing with him sometimes.

 

[DPSheltie]

Interestingly, I do exactly the opposite of what you have stated. And it's why I always say that every dog is different. I don't rev Koji up or get him high and get him drivey, nope, I calm him down. My crazy dog can't seem to think and be high at the same time. When he's relaxed, he runs faster, focuses better, and we get some awesome runs.

That's Riley too

 

[k9kreationz]

We have never had to get Riley rev'd up. We are the ones in class working on focus and CALM (hand touches, sits, relaxation, lots of focus on me work) in order to de-energize him!!! We actually do agility to give Riley a constructive outlet for his drive (and tricks and obedience work ) Yet he is still reactive, even though we work with him every day (LOTS of long walks, frisbee, ball, training, etc).

I did get a nice compliment from my trainer the other day. She works with reactive dogs professionally and has a reactive BC, so she knows what I am dealing with. She told me that we're doing really good with him, considering that if he had been in a "normal" home he would have been put into a rescue a while ago due to his high drive and reactiveness! I guess we are doing something right then, even though it is massively frustrating dealing with him sometimes.

Don't hide. Trust me, we all understand. Look at ultra cute Bailey, yup, it's her defense mechanism to survive since I'm sure any owner would want to strangle her at times. Ditto with Koji, but he's not as cute as Bailey.

And good for you for all that you've done. I started agility to give Koji an outlet for all his energy. Never thought I'd get addicted to it. Never thought I'd WANT to calm him down for agility either, but it's what he/we need to work together.

I'm just starting all that calming stuff. Koji's had 5 years to be crazy, so I have a lot to undo.

 

[take4roll10]

Don't hide. Trust me, we all understand. Look at ultra cute Bailey, yup, it's her defense mechanism to survive since I'm sure any owner would want to strangle her at times. Ditto with Koji, but he's not as cute as Bailey.

And good for you for all that you've done. I started agility to give Koji an outlet for all his energy. Never thought I'd get addicted to it. Never thought I'd WANT to calm him down for agility either, but it's what he/we need to work together.

I'm just starting all that calming stuff. Koji's had 5 years to be crazy, so I have a lot to undo.

Koji is just as cute! They all are! That's why they're still with us .

I was complaining about Bailey to my Agility trainer. I told her how some days I wish I did better research and went to a different breeder. She told me she's glad I didn't, cause she doesn't even want to imagine where Bailey would be without me. she'd probably be with a rescue or put down.