Limited Registration

[cthulhucometh]

Also, my dog, whether I paid for it or if it was given to me, they aren't an investment, they are a companion. They are living creatures.

 

[HopeShelties]

Just because you might want to isn't a reason to keep a dog intact. There is so much more to breeding dogs than just having a pet that you might want puppies out of. Responsible people do health testing on their dogs- for shelties hips, eyes, thyroid, vwd, and some do mdr1. They are also breeding for sound structure, type, and temperament.
If your plan is to do agility, you are going to want a dog with at a minimum a great temperament, and sound structure.... oh yeah, and health. Nothing worse than investing all of that time and money only to have the dog not have a temperament that can handle it, or structure that won't allow it to hold up long term, or have hip displasia or thyroid problems, or an eye problem that leads to ets/stutter stepping. Cheapy (your $5-700 full registration pup) or freebie dogs aren't going to have been evaluated for structure, and you can bet they haven't had health testing done. A friend got two bcs from a breeder who didn't do health testing 'so she could keep her prices low' and 'she hadn't personally seen any health issues'. Both dogs are agility dogs. One has some major structural issues. Both have thyroid problems and have to live on thyroid medicine for the rest of their lives and be retested regularly. Both have mild hip displasia. Their agility careers will be cut short because of their hip problems. So much for cheap. They cost more in the long run than the sheltie they got from me on limited registration who's parents were tested.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

Well wouldn't it be better for some of these "free" dogs to go to good homes instead? Just because they aren't registered doesn't mean they don't deserve a good home.

The answer to this completely depends on what you are looking for.

If you are looking for a couch companion that will never be asked to do things outside your home, do anything more physical that go outside to potty, and you don't mind not knowing what or where the dog came from, then the risk of the untested, possibly unsocialized, "free" dog will work for you. I have a friend who got a Mini Poodle out of a shelter, where he was born, and he lived to be almost 20 (three more weeks!) and was a MACH5 dog. Her brother got the littermate, and it lived to be 17. So in this case, the risk worked out great for her.

However, if you plan to participate in dog sport of any kind, knowing the background of the puppy, that the parents were screened for appropriate health issues, that the puppies were raised with the goal in mind of having a dog that travel and go places and not freak out, then it's worth the extra money to know that you are getting the best chance for a sound dog.

You can get crappy dogs from good breeders, just as you could get a good dog from a shelter or rescue. But you should have a clear understanding of what you want.

Just so that you understand the costs associated with having a litter, I just bred a bitch. The breeding fee was $250, the progesterone test was $128, the travel costs to the stud dog and back (twice) was $400 (gas and hotel). So I have almost $800 sunk into this litter before a puppy is even on the ground. I still have the balance of the stud fee, vet bills, and supplies to pay for. This does not include the genetic screens already done on her years ago, these are just direct costs. Any puppies not co-owned by me will go out on limited registrations. That's just how it works.

I'll also say that "saving" a dog from the Amish or from a pet store reselling puppy mill dogs is not the way to go either. While it makes you feel good that you think you "rescued" the dog, all you did was buy a dog and make room for another. So try to avoid that pitfall as well.

 

[Justicemom]

The answer to this completely depends on what you are looking for.

If you are looking for a couch companion that will never be asked to do things outside your home, do anything more physical that go outside to potty, and you don't mind not knowing what or where the dog came from, then the risk of the untested, possibly unsocialized, "free" dog will work for you. I have a friend who got a Mini Poodle out of a shelter, where he was born, and he lived to be almost 20 (three more weeks!) and was a MACH5 dog. Her brother got the littermate, and it lived to be 17. So in this case, the risk worked out great for her.

However, if you plan to participate in dog sport of any kind, knowing the background of the puppy, that the parents were screened for appropriate health issues, that the puppies were raised with the goal in mind of having a dog that travel and go places and not freak out, then it's worth the extra money to know that you are getting the best chance for a sound dog.

You can get crappy dogs from good breeders, just as you could get a good dog from a shelter or rescue. But you should have a clear understanding of what you want.

Just so that you understand the costs associated with having a litter, I just bred a bitch. The breeding fee was $250, the progesterone test was $128, the travel costs to the stud dog and back (twice) was $400 (gas and hotel). So I have almost $800 sunk into this litter before a puppy is even on the ground. I still have the balance of the stud fee, vet bills, and supplies to pay for. This does not include the genetic screens already done on her years ago, these are just direct costs. Any puppies not co-owned by me will go out on limited registrations. That's just how it works.

I'll also say that "saving" a dog from the Amish or from a pet store reselling puppy mill dogs is not the way to go either. While it makes you feel good that you think you "rescued" the dog, all you did was buy a dog and make room for another. So try to avoid that pitfall as well.

The first litter we had with Diva minus the stud fee, shipping, progesterone tests, Divas health testing(I am a vet so big time discount), supplies, deworming, vet care(again I am a vet so big time discounts), food, registration fees we made a total of $25 dollars profit for 4 pet puppies sold at $900(all sold on limited except 1 who was neutered by us when we placed him at 10 months, whoops there went the profit) a piece. That does not count the hours and hours of time we put into handling/socializing and training the puppies. Yes we train puppies- they are crate trained, started on housetraining, used to car rides and some are even introduced to leashes and basci obedience commands if we keep them beyond 8 weeks. the one we kept to 10 months was trained to CD level in obedience.

Ask yourself how can someone afford to raise a litter for less unless they were cutting corners.

 

[Tagg]

If you don't want to buy a dog that is on a breeding contract - we have non-breeding contracts here in Canada - because you want full rights to do whatever, then that is your choice. Personally ALL my companion puppies went out on breeding contracts registered with the CKC as well as a signed and witnessed affidavit that stated that I would sue for a minimum of $5000 per puppy that hit the ground if the owners went ahead and bred from this dog. Why should I have to worry that someone is going to indiscriminately breed from a dog that I deemed should go to a "pet" home and possibly ruin my reputation for producing healthy, well socialized dogs? You can do everything, including show, a dog on a NBC - just not breed from it.
Do you think a shelter or rescue dog is going to be allowed to remain breedable??
Sorry if I sound a little pushy. The health and welfare of all the dogs that ever were produced at my kennel are still of prime importance to me. I am ready to take them back at any time in their lives for the remainder of their lives if necessary. That gives me the right to say - you will not be able to breed from or sell, give away this dog.
The rescue I work with neuters/spays all dogs before they go to their new homes. That isn't much different - you still can't breed from them.

 

[ortegah]

Limited Registration just means you can't breed your dog and get AKC papers. You can still do performance sports like a. My dogs that I got as puppies from breeders all came with limited registrations and I compete with them in Agility. A reputable breeder will not sell you a puppy with a full registration. Also, a reputable breeder will require that you spay/neuter your dog so as to not spread more unwanted dogs out there.

 

[JLSOhio51]

I have no issue with "Limited Registration", per se. It is a contract issue plain and simple. Once both parties sign the contract, the issue is settled. There may be provisions that are standard and accepted with such registrations that I don't like, but again, those issues are settled when the parties agree to whatever contract is signed.

As I continue my research, there are a few issues that trouble me (more accurately puzzle me) about the standard practices of purchasing a dog that perhaps breeders on the forum or some of the more knowledgeable dog owners can address.

To set the stage, shortly after I began looking for a Sheltie there were three things that I was considering; (1) breeding, (2) conformation and (3) agility. It didn't take long for me to realize that I truly had no desire to breed, and that while agility and conformation are still potential interests, only to the extent that they will help form a stronger connection between me and my dog. There is no desire for "making it big" in the dog show world.

Lengthy (I know), but it leads to my concerns about some of the standard purchase contracts:

(1). I understand the breeder's need to protect his/her interests in such a way as to necessitate restriction and two types of contracts, but I don't understand the provisions often included that require show dogs be registered with the kennel's name included?

(2). As I understand it, the "Limited Registration" exempts the dog from participating in AKC Conformation trials. What has that got to do with protection of the breed? Poorly performing dogs will be weeded out quickly and favorable performing ones will ultimately show up in the breeder's bloodline charts.

All of this smacks of the breeder's desire to be protected from negative affects (understandable) while being able to take advantage of any positives that may result. Perhaps breeders on this forum can explain what I am missing.

 

[Lightplum]

To set the stage, shortly after I began looking for a Sheltie there were three things that I was considering; (1) breeding, (2) conformation and (3) agility. It didn't take long for me to realize that I truly had no desire to breed, and that while agility and conformation are still potential interests, only to the extent that they will help form a stronger connection between me and my dog. There is no desire for "making it big" in the dog show world.

Lengthy (I know), but it leads to my concerns about some of the standard purchase contracts:

(1). I understand the breeder's need to protect his/her interests in such a way as to necessitate restriction and two types of contracts, but I don't understand the provisions often included that require show dogs be registered with the kennel's name included?

Most breeders have their Kennel name required in the registered name for recognition purposes. There are a few kennels up here that have some great agility dogs out there, its a way for say kennel XYZ to say ohh my dog that I sold as an agility dog was the youngest MACH Sheltie in the history of the breed, his name is XYZ blah blah blah. Or it accomplished title, event..etc

(2). As I understand it, the "Limited Registration" exempts the dog from participating in AKC Conformation trials. What has that got to do with protection of the breed? Poorly performing dogs will be weeded out quickly and favorable performing ones will ultimately show up in the breeder's bloodline charts.

No, limited registration means that the offspring from the limited dog are not recognizable to the AKC, the blood line stops dead at said dog. So if you have a limited Reg dog if you breed it the puppies are not eligible to be registered with the AKC as purebred Shetland Sheepdogs.

 

[JLSOhio51]

Most breeders have their Kennel name required in the registered name for recognition purposes. There are a few kennels up here that have some great agility dogs out there, its a way for say kennel XYZ to say ohh my dog that I sold as an agility dog was the youngest MACH Sheltie in the history of the breed, his name is XYZ blah blah blah. Or it accomplished title, event..etc.

I understand that part. What I am saying is that: should I buy a dog without a requirement to add the kennel name in the registered name of the dog, and should he reach Champion status in an AKC sanctioned competition, that information will show on any pedigree produced. What the contract stipulation does is insure that the kennel's name is "up front" every time that the dog is encountered. I understand why the breeder would want that and once a contract is settled on, the owner should have no reason to complain (since he agreed). But the breeder prices the dog at least in part to cover his/her costs and exposure attendant on a dog sold as show quality. This requirement just seems over the top to me, bit again, a buyer either agrees or doesn't.

No, limited registration means that the offspring from the limited dog are not recognizable to the AKC, the blood line stops dead at said dog. So if you have a limited Reg dog if you breed it the puppies are not eligible to be registered with the AKC as purebred Shetland Sheepdogs.

Again, I understand the bloodline portion. This is what I am referring to:

Chapter 11 of the AKC pamphlet on the rules governing "Applying to Dog Shows" says:
" A dog with an AKC limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show."

While it is doubtful that I wil ever want to be heavy into dog show competition, I can foresee entering local or regional sponsored competitions (conformation and/or agility at this point) simply as a means of further bonding with my companion.

 

[Lightplum]

I understand that part. What I am saying is that: should I buy a dog without a requirement to add the kennel name in the registered name of the dog, and should he reach Champion status in an AKC sanctioned competition, that information will show on any pedigree produced. What the contract stipulation does is insure that the kennel's name is "up front" every time that the dog is encountered. I understand why the breeder would want that and once a contract is settled on, the owner should have no reason to complain (since he agreed). But the breeder prices the dog at least in part to cover his/her costs and exposure attendant on a dog sold as show quality. This requirement just seems over the top to me, bit again, a buyer either agrees or doesn't.



Again, I understand the bloodline portion. This is what I am referring to:

Chapter 11 of the AKC pamphlet on the rules governing "Applying to Dog Shows" says:
" A dog with an AKC limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show."

While it is doubtful that I wil ever want to be heavy into dog show competition, I can foresee entering local or regional sponsored competitions (conformation and/or agility at this point) simply as a means of further bonding with my companion.

Im not understanding or seeing a question in the first question, I could be just missing it though, but what ive got from it is that you are saying some breeders dont require their kennel name to be on a dog, I can assure you 120% that a dog eligible for conformation will carry somewhere in the registered name the breeders kennel Even dogs sold over seas and in Canada (which with the CKC they require the kennel name to be on every dog sold) has the breeding kennel name in it somewhere. 90% of the time its the first word, unless they have a strong partnership with buying kennel and they they will work a deal.

And for the second you answered your own question with the AKC rule A limited reg dog is ineligible to even be entered or compete in either an All breed or Spec Conformation show. So even while it may be a great buddy to you, it is not ineligible to be entered for that aspect of AKC events.