Merle to Merle Breeding is Ok as Long as You're Ok With the Outcome??

That is really sad :( I would hate to see the end of merles altogether. They don't *have* to have problems. It sounds to me like all are being punished for a few bad apples.
 
HopeShelties said:
That is really sad :( I would hate to see the end of merles altogether. They don't *have* to have problems. It sounds to me like all are being punished for a few bad apples.
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But is it just a few bad apples?

I certainly agree that any line is capable of breeding undesirable traits, like bad ears or hypothyrodism. But if merles really do carry the gene for these more serious side effects, shouldn't it be considered to breed them out altogether?

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate here. And I love Merles, btw.
 
BarbV said:
I certainly agree that any line is capable of breeding undesirable traits, like bad ears or hypothyrodism. But if merles really do carry the gene for these more serious side effects, shouldn't it be considered to breed them out altogether?

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate here. And I love Merles, btw.
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No I do not believe that because where does it stop.

You(breeders) aren't intellgent enough or responsible enough to police yourselves and develop good breeding programs. All purebred dogs have problems so therefore all dog breeding must be made illegal and that is the end of the domestic dog.

If you do not think that is how the anti dog breeding supporters think, you are wrong.
 
Justicemom said:
No I do not believe that because where does it stop.

You(breeders) aren't intellgent enough or responsible enough to police yourselves and develop good breeding programs. All purebred dogs have problems so therefore all dog breeding must be made illegal and that is the end of the domestic dog.

If you do not think that is how the anti dog breeding supporters think, you are wrong.
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I couldn't agree with you more on this.

Where does it stop?
 
BarbV said:
But is it just a few bad apples?

I certainly agree that any line is capable of breeding undesirable traits, like bad ears or hypothyrodism. But if merles really do carry the gene for these more serious side effects, shouldn't it be considered to breed them out altogether?

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate here. And I love Merles, btw.
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you've asked the question several times about not doing merle breedings...They as long as they are free from genetic issues (eyes,hips, thyroid..etc) are bred to another stable genetic non-merle dog is no different than sables or tris. The merles just carry a gene that dilutes the color of their coat. This does not make Merles bad or genetically inferior to the sables or Tris, its just means you (the breeder) should know what you are doing before you take on breeding..

As far as the European statement,to ban merle breedings is doing a huge injustice to the world of purebred dogs. Where does this stop? Do you than move onto other things? That is a slippery slope to start down imo...
 
Good point! Where is the line?

Sorry if I was pushing a little here....but I really did want to get people speaking out honestly about Sheltie breeds and lines.

I think its an important topic...if for no other reason that folk are out there trying to breed toy-shelties and mini-Shelties

Where is the line for them?
 
BarbV said:
Good point! Where is the line?

Sorry if I was pushing a little here....but I really did want to get people speaking out honestly about Sheltie breeds and lines.

I think its an important topic...if for no other reason that folk are out there trying to breed toy-shelties and mini-Shelties

Where is the line for them?
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I don't see the correlation.

What do I care if someone is breeding healthy, happy dogs? Even if I think their breeding program is silly. If you are breeding unhealthy dogs, or half your kennel ends up in rescue, then there is a problem.

Remember, we can't regulate life to the lowest IQ. For the same reasons I don't want my evening TV to be kid appropriate, just because someone lets thier kid stay up late, and they might see something adult. I want to hear 140 ****s in an episode of South Park.

But don't tell me I can't or shouldn't breed Merles because some other people breed them irresponsibly.
 
In the majority, yes, it is only a few bad apples. The majority are not doing merle to merle, or pushing for the whiteish blues and harlequins. Just because someone can push it too far, or do merle to merle breedings doesn't make merles bad. Merle genes in and of themselves aren't bad.
If there were anything to be banned I wouldn't mind seeing the end of merle to merle being done, but not the end of breeding merles in general.
Personally, I think we need to be more worried about fixing more serious problems... Thyroid anyone? Do you realize how many breeders knowingly breed thyroid dogs just because they consider it to be a manageable issue? How about eye problems? I know many who are, and many who won't admit to other breeders the problems within their lines so people unknowingly end up breeding into it. I have been verbally attacked for telling people looking to breed to/buy a puppy by/out of specific dogs who I know firsthand have specific health issues because the breeders don't want it outed that there is an issue. The people breeding/looking to be damned that they're then potentially buying into an issue.
 
Or breeding a fruitcake dog because "having a litter will help her confidence". Yeah, that's a responsible breeders line. I hear it all the time.

Juvenile kidney disease is also lurking.
 
Fruitcakes breed more fruitcakes. I'd be afraid to breed something that was nutty acting. I wouldn't want the resulting pups acting the same :/ which is likel if the dam is like that.
I also hear the 'she doesn't like the showring so she's for sale as a brood bitch'. Yeah, let's breed more like that. Roughly the same as what I used to hear in the Saddlebred world. 'She's too hot headed to train, so let's breed her!' or 'She's too hot and having a foal will settle her down'. Yeah, right.
 
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