NEVER thought I would have this problem.

You don't need to correct all the time! Set your dog up for success, manipulate your environment and stop reinforcement your pup gets from barking, sniffing fence fighting etc
When Leo was lunging on the end of the leash we started training for Gentle Leader. What did it do? I was able to control Leo's reinforcement, i.e. he could not more reinforce from barking and lunging as his time watching passing cars has decreased/ turn head, watch mommy instead of motion car/. Second it provided me with opportunities for endless reinforcement because once he turned to me and sat I was able to jack pot behavior I want every time.
Punishment DOES NOT build behavior, so popping leash is not effective. Dog will always do what is reinforcing so all you have to do is to control self reinforcement and train behavior you want.
I would try this
1.separate feeding in different rooms. If does not resolve anxiety, start hand feeding LB in the crate. If anxiety present after meal, cover the crate and leave. Once behavior stops, wait 2-3 minutes, remove the cover. Good behavior for 2-5 minutes, give treat release out of crate.
2. Crate games- if you do not have DVD, get one. It teaches self control and impulse control and it sounds like LB needs it.
3. Teach separate "settle" command. Reinforce the heck out of it... like when you preparing their breakfast take 2 doggie beds and teach pups to "settle" until you good and ready.
4. What do you want LB to do instead of barking? Train for it!
You want him to come outside of door and do a sit and look at you? train for it...
you want LB not to abuse Claussen or fence fight next door dogs- keep him leashed and work on manners you want. When 2 animals interact with each other one is always training the other, 24/7 and many times it is us who are being trained.
5. Take them for lots of walks, and triple their exercise time. Good dog is tired dog. Crate when you can not supervise so no fur goes missing.
 
BarbV said:
Sounds alot like Indy.

Indy is a food hog and a barking freak.

He's gotten a little better lately with a few "dominance" techniques. Apologies to those that disagree with Caesar's philosophy.

No, I don't kick him at any time. But:

- when he's chasing up and down the fence and barking like a fiend, I will plant myself in front of him and "touch" his neck to get his attention. Having done this a few times, I find that Indy will mostly come back to the house when called. The only exception is one dog that drives him particularly nuts. Funnily enough, the dog owner looks like Caesar....down to the walking stick. He marches along with his dog prowling in front of him and he never calls his dog back. Grr! But other dogs, Indy is getting better with.

- Indy barks at my son, my hair dryer, the vacuum, etc. I'm finding that if I'm a little more assertive, I can settle Indy down more quickly. So, yes, I use Caesar's touch on the neck to get his attention. And I'm starting to teach Ryan to do the same.

- I've decided that there are some behaviours that I won't deal with for the moment. For example, when I'm getting ready to go out, Indy circles the table and kitchen island compulsively. He's lining up for a treat and he'll keep circling till he gets it and I finally leave. He knows my "leave" signals, so this circling behaviour can go on for a good 15 minutes before I actually go. Eventually, I will wean him off this. Baby steps.
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Barb, I do not think "touch" is really needed if you so bound on punishing your dogs. Dogs respond to body movements much better, so you planting yourself in front of them, leaning forward with mean expression is enough social pressure for your dogs, specially for sensitive herding breeds. What would be great if you, after stopping unwanted behavior, immediately leaned
back, put a big smile on your face, asked for what you want your dog to do at that time and rewarded jack pot for the behavior you want.
To understand this, try following, find another human and stand facing each other with toes 6" from each other, i.e. pretty close face to face. Stand like that for few seconds then step back. Describe what you feel.
Generally being that close to another human being is kinda tense and stressful so stepping back feels like great relief. Bank on that feeling and reinforce behavior you want. Will work much better that "not kicking but touching" your dog:smile2: Not my theory, actually this one from Chris Bach " Third Way" training.
 
With regards to feeding, I would consider managing the situation first so he doesn't get to repeat that behaviour over and over. Maybe feed his food out of a Kong or some other food dispensing toy, so that it takes longer for him to complete his meal. Or, perhaps even handfeeding him his meal, training him to sit and stay or lie down and settle with each piece of food. I feel it is largely his age causing the problems but constantly drilling it into him what the proper behaviour should be, teaching him what's right, will help as he matures.

With the barking when leaving the hose, I would just work on sits and 'watch me's. Get him to sit and look at you when you step out the door. Take a next step, sit and look at you again. Reward of course if he can do that without barking! Don't reward sitting that is accompanied by barking! If there's alot of activity going on from other dogs, have him sit. He can look at the activity, but he can't bark. Reward for quietly looking. If you google Leslie McDevitt's Look At That game, it's kind of like that. When my dogs go mad together, I tell them to sit and knock it off :lol: They get rewarded for looking at whatever is driving them nuts then turning their attention back to me. If I move and they start up again, I repeat the process. They just need to settle down and stop acting like clowns.

I've fostered several mongrel pups who LOVE to chase after the fast sheltie (Juliet!) and coz they can't outrun her, they'll grab her bum fur. I'll often see them running around with Juliet's fur sticking out of their mouths. I tend to see Juliet telling the pups off if she doesn't like it, but I do step in and regulate play if I think the pup is going overboard. Usually with a spritz of water from a spray bottle! :biggrin2: I try however to remember to stop play ever so often, making them all settle down before letting them start playing again. I find pups just don't know their limits, and if the other dog isn't going to tell them where to draw the line we should step in and do it for them.
 
SheltieChe said:
I was talking to my friend and she reminded me that LB is still a puppy and going through different phases, and testing his limits... if you let him rehearse naughty behavior over and over again it will get to be perfect:razz:
but it never has to be about punishment
not even best trainers get perfect puppies...
http://www.youtube.com/clickerdogs#p/u/22/vno3yMRsjSo
http://www.youtube.com/clickerdogs#p/u/20/3reGQdnvo90
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Oh those videos are so cute!! Thanks for sharing!
 
Thanks all for your input! The situation outside is actually a pretty dangerous one. I live in a townhouse and my neighbors have 2 german shepherds that have been imported from the Czech. They weigh 95 and 110 lbs. They are massive. And they are NEVER on leashes. I always watch to make sure the coast is clear before I bring my dogs out. But sometimes he lets them out without looking. They stick close to the owner, but my Little Bear will bark and get them to chase him, but they WILL get right on top of him and view him as a "play thing".

On a recent, side note, There is no fencing between any of the apartments out front, and I actually had to call the cops on the one guy because he was screaming and yelling and throwing rocks down into the parking lot at his roommate (almost hit my new car with these big rocks) and then he locked him out in the freezing rainy weather. I'm friends with the one guy, but the guy that was throwing rocks, we've never spoken. Well, this guy automatically assumed it was me that called the cops and after the officer left, he began screaming through the wall "F**K YOU B***H! Over and over again. So, my dogs are definitely being on leashes outside now. Hostility in the neighborhood!!

If Little Bear reallllly has to go potty, he will bark all the way down my staircase, then nose the bells at the door and jump up and down. It's like "Okay I get the point!" But I'm not going to tell him not to bark if he has to potty considering we still have the occassional accident. The issue is that he continues to bark when we go outside so what I'll try doing is have him sit, I'll open the door, tell him come and sit, and then give him a treat for coming to me outside and sitting. Then I'll release him to go potty. If he knows I have food he's usually a different dog....but he won't always completely empty his bladder, either because he knows he gets the treat for going potty. Too smart!

For the food issue, I've had a sheet covering the sides of his crate so he can't see Claussen at all anymore. Today he finished and just kind of wobbled back and forth between his dish and the other side of the cage, just OBSESSIVE! But it's not a behavior I can't deal with, I just would like to keep the insanity to a minimum with him. At 6 months, it's this-in 2 years he could really have some mental problems.

The times that Claussen gets fur ripped out is when they are playing freely outside (or inside). Little Bear likes to hop on his back with his front paws, latch on with his teeth, and 'go for a ride'. Claussen doesn't seem to mind, but I'm tired of the overly dominant behavior. When I say "eh" or enough, or gentle, everything stops. So they think I want them to stop playing. With the past few days of nonstop rain and cold, I haven't taken them anywhere for exercise. But they really don't go nuts if they aren't exercised. They just sleep.

Anways, we'll see how the new methods go, I'm excited to see if I can calm him down.
 
hmm, nothing like puppies to keep us young...:smile2:
following was helpful for me
put "going potty treat" on a slot machine schedule, sometimes he get a pat, sometimes " good boy", sometimes "lets run and toy tug", sometimes jack pot treat party...
teach them "go play" i.e. recall, give a treat then send them "go play" or run and play/ tug/ chase with them yourself.
 
Ah, the joys of puppy ownership! I followed this with interest, as I had had some of the same problems with my first Sheltie when he was a puppy. Even though Shelties (and most other purebreeds) come with a more or less standard of temperment, personalities can wildly vary from dog to dog. Puppies can get pretty aggressive when they are testing their boundaries. Maybe it's time for the old "snip-snip"?
 
I was thinking about Koji when he was a puppy when I read your post. Sounds almost the same, except he's sorta just as bad as a 4yo. So, to help with the food issue......

Someone else wrote, "use it against LB". Seriously, best advice ever. Make him work for his food (NILIF). Use those toys that dispense food. You can just stick him in an xpen. Use the Premack Principle. It works wonders for food hounds. "Premack’s Principle states an animal will perform an undesired behavior in order to engage in a desirable behavior." Koji will hold his stay for 15 minutes if he knows dinner is following. I would suggest feeding Claussen first while LB sit's and waits. You can treat him while he waits. And/or train LB when Claussen is eating. You can work on anything, obedience, tricks, etc.

If you choose to continue feeding them both in crates. I would allow Claussen to finish, let him out of his crate. Take the bowl out so LB sees you. Then, make LB sit and wait for you to open the door. Make him learn to stay in there until he is released (crate games). If he runs over to Claussen's crate, it's okay. Food is gone. He'll probably do this the rest of his life.

As for the barking. A trainer recently said something to me that I never thought about. A lot of times, we want our dogs to stop barking, stop growling, etc. It's basically us telling them not to "talk" to us in anyway, and that's not good. So, it's okay that LB barks, BUT he needs to learn to stop. Or learn to calm down. I think someone suggested crate games. I'm told that works wonders. I haven't tried it myself though.

Also, why is LB barking at the shepherds? Is he fearful? Does he want to play? Is he being aggressive? My trainer who's helping me with Koji's barking/lunging/etc said he's afraid, but doesn't know how to handle it, and this is what he knows. Popping the collar does nothing but make it worse as you're actually making their current level of unease rise. There's many different ways to handle this. You have to decide what works for you. But it's best if you first understand why LB is acting the way he is.

Hope some of that helped. And trust me, although at 6 months he's probably in that rebellion stage, in that same breath, take care of this now. You do NOT want a 4yo, like Koji, doing the same things. It's dang embarrassing. :o

Oh, as for the other dogs, have you thought of walking with a stick to keep them at a distance? And definitely do not allow LB off-leash and running at them. If the other dog attacks or if the owner smacks LB with a stick....you do realize its LB's and your fault, right? Until he's in control 100%, I wouldn't allow him off-leash outside ever. Keep him safe from himself. Koji may never hurt a person or dog, but I"m sure one day, an owner or dog will retaliate.

Good luck!!! Now go hug that cute puppy of yours!
 
Jaynie said:
Ah, the joys of puppy ownership! I followed this with interest, as I had had some of the same problems with my first Sheltie when he was a puppy. Even though Shelties (and most other purebreeds) come with a more or less standard of temperment, personalities can wildly vary from dog to dog. Puppies can get pretty aggressive when they are testing their boundaries. Maybe it's time for the old "snip-snip"?
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that! I was going to try to wait until Claussen was a year old and do both of them then. Little Bear really has nowhere near the coat that Claussen had at his age, and I'm worried that by neutering him I could stunt the full growth of his mane and coat? I always thought that they grow fuller coats from more testosterone (to impress the females). Is this just a myth? Claussen is 8.5 months old, and other than him not listenening to me if there's another dog nearby and running off after it, his temperment is absolutely babyish. He's such a momma's boy. Perhaps I should start to think about doing that now. I'd like some input/advice about that from anyone that can...these are my first dogs and know nothing about the affects/myths of neutering and mental/physical growth.
 
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